Evidence of meeting #112 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I won't confirm any of that. Those are conversations I have with any individual.
If I believe that I need to be proactive in ensuring compliance, I will do that. Very often I open a preliminary assessment and go from there.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks very much. There's correspondence to follow.
Mr. Chair, I'm going to turn my time over to Mr. Kurek.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Thank you very much, Chair, and thanks to my colleague.
Commissioner, thank you again for coming before us.
With the changes that were made in the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct, maybe you can quantify for us whether significant outreach was done by members to ensure that people would be compliant. I'm not just speaking of MPs. Those who are affected would be a better way to put it.
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
The numbers just skyrocketed. That's the number of individuals who communicated with our office to ensure that the code was understood. Incredibly, there were a lot of calls from members of Parliament with respect to sponsored travel, which led me to do that one-pager I sent to everybody to make sure you all understood where I was coming from with respect to regulating the lobbyists.
We do a lot of presentations to organizations, corporations and firms that want to understand the rules, in particular with respect to hospitality and gifts, which I've really come down on with a number. People want to understand what that really means.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
Help me understand a bit about what that communication from your office looks like. Are those emails? Are those phone calls? Is that outreach? Is it you being asked to give a presentation to a group of people or a lobbying firm? What does that look like?
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
It's all of the above.
When someone registers to lobby, we automatically offer an outreach session. Very often they take us up on it and they'll be one on one with our advisers. Then we will send emails to groups or organizations that we see may not be registered and ask whether they understand the rules, just in case they meet the threshold, for example.
I never say no to a presentation. We've done 123. When I think about the number of people we have, we do a lot of outreach. It can be upon request.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Damien Kurek Conservative Battle River—Crowfoot, AB
I appreciate that.
It's interesting. One of the scandals that has dominated much of the headlines is about a company named GC Strategies. Do you find that name misleading? A company that does contract work with the government is named GC Strategies. I'm just curious if you could perhaps share your thoughts on that.
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I never really put much thought into the name of a company. I look at their actions and then decide whether or not it fits my—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Kurek and Madam Bélanger.
Mr. Fisher, you have five minutes. Go ahead, please.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Madam Commissioner, for being here.
You have such an in-depth knowledge of this. It's really refreshing for us to learn and hopefully take some of it away.
My colleague Mr. Bains touched on sections 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3. I want to touch on section 4.2, which reads:
Never lobby an official or their associates where the official could reasonably be seen to have a sense of obligation towards you because of political work—paid or unpaid—you are doing or have done for the benefit of the official, unless the cooling-off period has expired.
I'm sure you understand that completely.
Section 4.2 states that you should never lobby an individual who may have a sense of obligation due to political work, either paid or unpaid. We've seen in reporting that Ms. Byrne's firm has been lobbying Conservative members of Parliament and designated public office holders in the Leader of the Opposition's office. Ms. Byrne has been reported as being the next national campaign director.
Do you believe that Ms. Byrne's role as a national campaign director could create a sense of this obligation? Technically speaking, with the updated code of conduct that you published last year, back home in the next election campaign, my sign chair won't be able to lobby me for one to two years because of that sense of obligation.
Tell me what your thoughts are on Ms. Byrne holding that role.
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
The first thing I'm going to say is I'm not going to comment on Ms. Byrne and her role. She is not at this time registered to lobby the federal government, and therefore—
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I will do my work. If she is not registered to lobby, she's not subject to this code. Let's put that on the table as a first thing.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Someone who is clearly lobbying but is unregistered should also be a concern. Is that correct?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
If someone is lobbying and not registered, it's an act issue that I would refer to the RCMP.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you.
A CBC article on March 22 said, “Some lobbyists listed as working for Forecheck Strategies on the federal lobbying database are listed as employees on the website of Jenni Byrne + Associates, but not on the website of Forecheck Strategies.” It seems like some people work for Jenni Byrne but use Forecheck Strategies to maybe book meetings. Again, I'm trying to get clarity.
Maybe you can tell me what you think the reality is here as you see it. Does it raise suspicions when people are so ultrafluid in their registrations?
April 16th, 2024 / 12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
What the reality is I don't know because I'm in the process of doing my work.
For any company that is registered to lobby the federal government—and Forecheck is—their lobbyists would be subject to the code of conduct. There might be some act perspective and there will possibly be code issues, but I need to do the work to determine if there are any breaches of the code.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Are you able to tell us where you are in the process?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
The preliminary assessment has been opened.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
In your experience, which is long, is it common for lobbyists to register with consulting firms where they are not employees?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I'm sorry. I don't understand. Is it common—
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Is it common for a lobbyist to register with a consulting firm that they are not an employee of? I ask because some members seem to work for Jenni Byrne + Associates and some seem to work for Forecheck. There's this fluidity of registration.
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I don't know what the facts of this particular issue are at this point, but usually a government relations firm will register.
What happens with consultants is they have to individually register. It's not the firm that registers. Each lobbyist has the responsibility to register as the consultant lobbyist irrespective of which company or firm they are with.