Information & Ethics Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Philippe Dufresne]

What are you referring to?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

All-in-one banking applications come to mind.

[Philippe Dufresne]

There were discussions about this in the budget recently. There are going to be legislative proposals to encourage a more open banking system, so with more information sharing, both in the interests of consumers, but also to combat money laundering.

In one case, this will be governed by the banking regulators; in the other, it will be governed by the anti-money laundering authority. In both cases, I expect to be consulted as a stakeholder.

In the case of anti-money laundering, it is anticipated that, in connection with the provisions that will be proposed, there will be regulations for me to approve codes of good practice.

I think these proposals will certainly foster innovation as well as the ease of communicating and having banking services, while protecting privacy first and foremost. My role will be to ensure that these innovations do not come at the expense of privacy.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

We would like to believe that this innovation, which promises to be beneficial, will protect the fundamental right to privacy.

[Philippe Dufresne]

I will use the powers granted to me by law to continue making sure that privacy is protected. In the context of a new bill, I will give my opinion to the relevant committee and tell them, where appropriate, whether I believe the wording should be strengthened. I will certainly be very active in raising concerns, as I have done in other areas, such as cybersecurity and national security.

As I have often said, it is not a zero-sum game. We should not say we cannot have innovation without sacrificing privacy. All this requires work and consultation. For example, last year, with my colleagues from the Competition Bureau and the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, we created a forum of digital regulators because we want to work together and we do not want there to be zero-sum games.

We have just renewed this forum for a second year. I will be chairing it this year. We will be looking for concrete results.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you.

Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes.

Go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to put two questions to you relatively quickly, sir.

You reported that 55% of complaints received by your office are responded to within the service standards, but that is still below your target of 75%.

Can you explain what steps you are taking to reach the 75% target?

[Philippe Dufresne]

We've obtained additional funding, and that's helped.

We are looking at our processes. We have done an assessment to see if we could find efficiencies. Can we streamline? Can we have some more early resolution of complaints? We're really looking at all of those aspects, and this is strategic priority number one in my strategic plan, talking about optimizing the OPC itself.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is the funding adequate, sir?

[Philippe Dufresne]

Well, the funding is not adequate, and it's not permanent.

We have had temporary funding, and that has helped greatly. We need permanent funding, because those complaints and breaches are permanent, and they are increasing. This is something I hope to—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

On March 7, 2023, the Information Commissioner of Canada appeared before our committee, and she had some feedback on the way in which you're funded.

On the topic of funding, I strongly believe that a model that gives the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister the power to limit the required funding agents of Parliament is contrary to our oversight role. As agents of Parliament, we report directly to Parliament rather than to a cabinet or a particular ministry. Frankly, the manner in which we're funded should reflect this independence.

Do you agree with that statement?

[Philippe Dufresne]

I do. I think as agents of Parliament we report to you; we don't report to the executive branch. In fact, we investigate complaints against the executive branch.

In my case, there may be a difference vis-à-vis my private sector mandate—I have both public sector and private sector mandates. There may be less of a concern vis-à-vis the investigation of the private sector, but vis-à-vis the investigation of the public sector, there is that appearance of concern.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

This is straightforward. Do you have any recommendations on how to make the process by which funding is provided to the officers of Parliament entirely independent of the government?

[Philippe Dufresne]

There was a process in the past whereby the requests were reviewed by a committee of parliamentarians. I think it was chaired by the Speaker's office, and you had representatives of all parties, and then it went forward to Treasury Board. It wasn't fully independent, but it certainly provided greater oversight.

There's the example of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, or Elections Canada. The idea is to have less approval by the Treasury Board and the executive and more approval by the speakers or the Houses. There are tools, and I think the key point is more legislative involvement.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Mr. Dufresne, we're going to go to four minutes and four minutes. We'll go with Mr. Brock followed by Ms. Khalid.

We do have some votes, so I need to leave a little time for that.

Go ahead, Mr. Brock, for four minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, gentlemen, for your attendance.

Commissioner, my questions will be directed towards you for my four minutes.

Is it accurate, sir, that my colleague Mr. Barrett is the only parliamentarian to launch a particular complaint and a request for your office to investigate the circumstances behind the arrive scam issue?

[Philippe Dufresne]

The current complaint was in response to Mr. Barrett's—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Was he the only parliamentarian?

[Philippe Dufresne]

My team can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that's the case.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

Have you received anonymous complaints from any other source in relation to the arrive scam debacle?

[Philippe Dufresne]

I don't have that information, and I'm not sure that's necessarily information I would be making public if it was an anonymous situation. I'm not sure how to respond to that.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'll be more specific.

Have you received any complaints or any areas of concern raised by any current or former CBSA officials or employees?

[Philippe Dufresne]

Again, the Privacy Act places significant confidentiality obligations on me, on that one.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay. I anticipated that response. I thought I'd ask it, though.

I'll follow up on a point that I'm not sure I was clear on in terms of an inability on your part to provide meaningful consequences should there be a violation of your act.

Did I get that correct?

[Philippe Dufresne]

You did.

I do not currently have the ability to issue binding orders under the Privacy Act.