Information & Ethics Committee on May 16th, 2024

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

—and when there isn't a modicum of courtesy paid at the outset of these studies. You do not have the power, sir.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

This isn't a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Green, we're—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's a scheduling question. Of course it's a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Green, I got your point.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's absolutely a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I appreciate your point, Mr. Green.

I'm going to move on because I have Monsieur Villemure on a point of order.

Go ahead, Monsieur Villemure.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's not quite the same thing, but one thing intrigues me a great deal. We have three scheduled meetings, of which this is the first, and none of the witnesses who have been called are on the list we established at the outset.

As much as I love hearing from Ms. Maynard, I'm concerned that we're not going to be able to get our work done on time. I understand that Ms. Jeffrey is replacing Mr. Stewart, but we had called Mr. Stewart. It's the same thing with Mr. Dufresne.

The committee's motion was clear. We want to talk about why the government denied members of Parliament access to the Winnipeg lab documents. However, neither Ms. Jeffrey nor Ms. Huggins were with the government when this refusal happened.

Since the substance of the motion is to analyze the government's concealment of documents, it worries me that we can't receive the individuals who were identified at the outset.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

I've already explained how we ended up in this situation. We've called other witnesses to appear before the committee.

It's a work in progress right now, Monsieur Villemure, so with the meetings we have scheduled, we are going to attempt to get the witnesses here, including the ministers, whose invitations have already been sent out.

I'd like to go to Ms. Maynard, but Larry, are you still up on a point of order? You had your hand up.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

My point of order was articulated by Mr. Barrett.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you so much.

Ms. Hepfner, do you have a point of order?

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Yes. It's just to support my colleague Matthew Green's point of order. I think everything he said is completely in line. I find that the way this committee has been called is completely bizarre. I don't find that the rationale is there, from what you've just described to us, Mr. Chair. It's not like this study is actually—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Lisa, we're getting into debate here.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

—pressing. It's been studied in another committee.

Matthew is absolutely right, and I want to echo his outrage that this should not be happening. You should not be able to circumvent—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We're getting into debate.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, my hand is up next.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

On a point of order—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You made a decision. I'm now challenging the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, and what are you challenging the chair on, Mr. Green, just so that I'm clear?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's on your ability to arbitrarily set the course of this committee without consulting with us on the witness list.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Just hang on a second. We're still on a point of order, Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You said you made a decision, so now I'm challenging your decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Just hang on a second, Mr. Green.

Mr. Green, you can challenge me all you want. The authority that I have as a chair to call a meeting, which I've done and given my reasons for, cannot be challenged. There is nothing to challenge, so I leave it to you. If you want to have a procedural motion a bit later on, or a dilatory motion, that's perfectly your right, but there is effectively nothing to challenge at this point because I've called the meeting. The meeting is going to proceed—unless there are other points of order—and I am going to get Ms. Maynard to speak to the committee and start the process of having our meeting today.

I see that Ms. Khalid has her hand up. Is it on a point of order, Ms. Khalid? I see your head nodding. Go ahead, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Chair, I believe I asked for a point of order before Ms. Khalid.