Information & Ethics Committee on May 21st, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Green and Ms. Giles. That completes our first round of questioning.

We're going next to Mr. Brock for five minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for their attendance today.

Kenny Chiu, former Conservative member for Steveston—Richmond East, testified twice at committee. I believe they were both at the ethics committee.

The first time he appeared, on March 31, 2023, he didn't provide any specifics other than to make a very bold statement saying that foreign meddling, particularly from Beijing, China, played a role in his defeat.

The Liberal candidate, MP Parm Bains, who won the election, was spoken to by the press afterward. He was asked whether or not foreign interference played a role in his election. He was very emphatic in saying no, not at all, while simply walking away from the cameras. Again, Mr. Chiu did not provide any specifics in relation to Mr. Bains.

He did, however, do that on April 30, 2024. Mr. Chiu said:

Now, let me introduce my former opponent. In my view, his ascent to power was paved with disinformation. Perhaps it was through a calculated strategy or, at the very least, he was a willing participant in a now proven disinformation campaign. He willingly embraced and propagated accusations targeting Conservatives, including our then leader Erin O’Toole and me, accusing Conservatives of racism and of harbouring anti-Asian sentiments. Exploitative and manipulative, these allegations linked to foreign states reverberated through biased media channels and chat groups.

Further on, Mr. Chiu said, with respect to Mr. Bains:

He publicly pledged to the Chinese audience that he would not support a foreign influence registry. This promise directly contradicted the then minister of public safety's announcement back in 2022 and 2023.

During my intervention, I asked for more specifics. Mr. Chiu said that Mr. Bains had propagated, elevated and amplified this misinformation. He said:

From what I've gathered, it was by attending radio interviews and community events where he publicly announced that he was not going to support what he called this “anti-Asian foreign interference registry”. There was zero clarification as to what exactly Bill C-282, which I had proposed, would have done. There was no mention of any country whatsoever. The fact is that it was to inject transparency into political lobbying activities, but these subtleties and intricacies were not clarified during those opportunities. By doing that, and by not helping me to clarify my character, he perpetuated and continued the assassination attempts.

This was very specific language. Was that relayed to CSIS?

[Dr. Nicole Giles]

As you can imagine, CSIS does follow the media, as most Canadians do.

For the specific question that you're asking about, the unclassified summaries of these incidents that were released by us as part of the PIFI commission do speak to this.

I think I would also stress that the panel of five for both federal elections did make a determination that the detection of foreign interference did not threaten Canada's ability to have a free and fair election in a way that warranted public communication.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm not challenging that. I'm simply asking this: Did he share those specifics of what I read out to you? Did he complain about that to CSIS during the 2021 campaign? Yes or no?

[Dr. Nicole Giles]

I am not personally aware of that.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Chair, at this time I'm moving a motion. I believe Madam Clerk has received it via email in both official languages.

I have several copies for distribution, which I can pass to the clerk.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. Go ahead and read your motion, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

The motion reads:

That, as part of the study agreed to by the committee on February 13, 2024, the study be extended to examine the actions of the MP for Steveston—Richmond East during the 2021 election.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

For clarity, how many meetings are you looking to do here, Mr. Brock? That might help the committee in its—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I would say that, probably, one to two meetings would suffice.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

The motion is in order. It's in relation to the study.

Have you distributed that, Madam Clerk, to...?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Give me a second.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'm going to go back to you, Mr. Brock, but I'm going to suspend for a minute so that members of the committee can have this motion.

Mr. Kurek, I see your hand.

I ask our witnesses, if they can, to stay where they are. Perhaps we can dispose of this quickly, but I'm going to suspend for a minute to give—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'd also like to be on the speaking list.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I have you after Mr. Kurek.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Everyone, I call the meeting back to order.

The motion, as proposed by Mr. Brock, has been moved.

For the benefit of the committee, Mr. Brock, I do need to seek clarification on whether you're asking for....

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm going to err on the side of caution and ask for two meetings, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, so you're going to ask for up to two meetings. It's just because, as you know, we like working on timelines and being very specific.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

The motion has been moved.

Mr. Brock, you have the floor.

Right now the list that I have is Brock, Kurek, Khalid and Bains.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair, but if you want to switch Bains and Khalid, that would be awesome.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, so I have Bains, Khalid, and I saw your hand, Mr. Fisher.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Yes, that's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I don't expect that we're going to get through this quickly, given the list that we have, but we'll see how far this goes. I ask for your patience, please, Ms. Giles.

I go to Mr. Brock to start. Mr. Brock, you have floor on the motion, but first I have Mr. Kurek on a point of order.

Go ahead, Mr. Kurek.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

The witnesses mentioned, I believe, that they had printed off some information. Regardless of what happens for the rest of the meeting, I ask, Chair, if you can ensure that members get the information that the witnesses referred to. I believe there are some packages. I can see some there—I believe those are the ones that were referred to. Can you make sure that committee members do, in fact, get them?