Information & Ethics Committee on July 17th, 2024

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I want back on the list now.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Well, you're on the amendment, Mr. Green, so I'm not going to suspend the meeting. We'll deal with the amendment first and then go to the main motion.

Go ahead, Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

To go back to the process as it stands, particularly given the refusal to answer direct questions. For those of you who follow, you will know that it is often the case that the NDP consistently demands documents and evidence, and is supportive of having witnesses provide testimony. Although we're not judicial or even quasi-judicial in nature, I think it's important that we recognize the powers Parliament has.

Having said that, if there were questions related to the refusal, they couldn't be dealt with procedurally until the House rises, anyway. That's just a fact. I'm of the mind that we use that timeline, which gives us the parliamentary processes and procedures when we are sitting again. As it relates to the Speaker and as we were going to, potentially, report back to the House, it's in keeping with the work that we're doing rather than getting ahead of it. That's my position.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Mr. Naqvi, I have you back on the list here. Go ahead on the amendment, please.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

The reason I asked for a suspension is that I want to move a slightly variation to the motion, make an amendment to the motion, which I think there will be room for understanding for among the members. However, we will need that time during that suspension period, which will allow for the committee to actually fulfill its purpose.

I can read that draft motion—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Just so I'm clear, are you moving an amendment to the amendment, or are you moving an amendment to the main motion?

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It's an amendment to the main motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, so why don't we dispose of Mr. Green's amendment first; then you can have the floor and can move your amendment to the motion whether it's been amended or not?

I don't see any other discussion.

Oh, Mr. Fisher, I see your hand now. Go ahead, please.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

It's an interesting meeting: usually we have most of our members, or all of them, in person, and of course today we have more here virtually.

Mr. Chair, you very often agree to suspend when discussion can happen, so I ask again that you honour Mr. Naqvi's request for a short suspension so that we can have a quick chat about this and see if we can get to a place at which the committee's happy.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Fisher, I already said I'm going to deal with Mr. Green's amendment first. Mr. Naqvi indicated that he's going move a further amendment to the main motion. So I can determine that after I hear the amendment.

I'm going to ask the committee...and I need some frankness on this. My understanding is that Mr. Anderson has a flight he needs to catch, and Ms. Poon is also busy. I asked them to stay. Is there any need for these witnesses to remain at this point, understanding that there is a logistical...? I'm hearing noes.

Mr. Villemure doesn't agree either.

Ms. Poon and Mr. Anderson, I'm going to dismiss you as witnesses. I appreciate your time in front of the committee today. Safe travels. Thank you for being here.

Let's continue.

I have no further discussion on the amendment by Mr. Green. I think the amendment is fairly clear.

Do we have consensus on the amendment? We do not. Okay.

We're going to take a vote on the amendment.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're now on the main motion as amended.

I'm going to go to Mr. Naqvi.

I know that you wanted to speak on it, Mr. Fisher, but I think Mr. Naqvi wants to speak first.

Go ahead, Mr. Naqvi.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. I sincerely appreciate this.

I'll read what I want to capture, and this is where we would want a suspension so that I can work with my colleagues to see if we can turn it into an amendment or a stand-alone motion, if it's agreed upon by the members. I'll read what I have in mind.

I move:

That, the committee order Stephen Anderson to produce of all of the previously requested documents, in addition to the name referenced in today's testimony, and if those documents are not received by Friday, July 19 at 12:00 p.m., the Chair prepare a report to the House outlining the questions that Stephen Anderson refused to answer in writing and during testimony.

The rationale is that, as noted, there are still outstanding documents—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'm sorry, Mr. Naqvi. Have you submitted the text? Is there anything in writing on that? I think we—

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I can do that. I just wanted to share the gist of what I'm suggesting that we do.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

On that issue, I am going to suspend to make sure that all other members have it.

Is that a problem for you? No. Okay. Thank you.

I'm going to suspend for a couple of minutes. I want to make sure that all members have it in front of them and that the clerk has it, so she can distribute it.

Before I suspend, I'm going to remind all members that we need to deal with an issue in camera on an access to information request, and there's a deadline coming up. I need time for that. Okay?

We're going to suspend for a couple of minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I want to thank everyone for their patience. The meeting is resuming.

I am going to start with Mr. Brock.

Mr. Brock, you had a motion that you moved. What would you like to do, sir?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Given the discussions that took place during our stand-down, I think at this point it is productive for me to withdraw the motion. I'll be seeking unanimous consent from the committee to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Do we have unanimous consent to withdraw the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

(Motion withdrawn)

Thank you.

Mr. Naqvi, I'm going to go to you. I understand, sir, that you are going to move a motion you were speaking about before the suspension.

Go ahead, sir.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Brock for withdrawing his motion, and to all the members for the conversations.

Based on the conversation, I'm moving the following:

That, the committee order Stephen Anderson to produce all of the previously requested documents, in addition to the name referenced in today's testimony, and if those documents are not received by Friday, July 19 at 12:00 p.m., the Chair prepare a report to the House outlining the questions that Stephen Anderson refused to answer in writing and during testimony.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Naqvi.

The motion is in order. It has been distributed in both official languages to all members of the committee.

Do you have anything you want to say on it, sir?

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay.

Mr. Villemure, the floor is yours.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I've just received the motion. I don't have a problem with it, but I would like some clarification from Mr. Naqvi.

The information that will be received, including the name of the person we're seeking to obtain, won't be kept secret and can be publicly disclosed, correct?