Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 133 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, February 13, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of the impact of disinformation and misinformation on the work of parliamentarians.

I would like to welcome our witness for the first hour today. From Bell Media Inc., we have Mr. Richard Gray, vice-president of CTV News.

Mr. Gray, welcome. I understand that all the tests have been completed on your Zoom. You have up to five minutes to present your opening statement to the committee.

Go ahead, sir. Thank you.

[Richard Gray, Vice-President, CTV News, Bell Media Inc.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, members of the committee.

I am pleased to be here to contribute to your study on misinformation and disinformation, which are important issues facing Canadians. As Canada's most watched news source, CTV News is keenly attuned to the challenges of a changing information ecosystem. In a rapidly evolving world, it is more important than ever that Canadians have access to fair and balanced news coverage that they can trust. As a reputable news organization in a democracy, it is the fundamental purpose of CTV News to enable Canadians to know what is happening and to clarify events so that they may form their own conclusions. This is done through accurate, fair and relevant stories told in a clear and compelling way.

I want to recognize the tireless work of CTV News journalists and staff, who go above and beyond every day to uphold our mandate with the highest standards of honesty, transparency and independence. It is not always easy work, but it is important work and it deserves to be recognized.

For over 60 years, CTV News has kept Canadians informed of the stories that matter to them. In recent years, this has included a once-in-a-generation pandemic, elections at home and abroad, natural disasters, geopolitical crises, economic issues and much more. Thanks to the hard work of its journalists and staff, CTV News has consistently been named Canada's most trusted news source. This is something we are very proud of because trust is something we take very seriously.

Our mandate is to uphold journalistic integrity and independence under all circumstances and at all times without exception. We are a member of the Trust Project, a global network of news organizations, and we draw on tools that they've developed to help Canadians make informed news choices.

As a news team, we have a responsibility to hold people and organizations with power and influence accountable to the public, and that responsibility extends to how we manage our own affairs. In this industry, mistakes sometimes happen, despite our best efforts. I am of the belief that how we respond to those mistakes is critical to maintaining public trust. This brings me to an issue that has garnered attention recently.

A report on the CTV National News broadcast on September 22 did not meet our expected and required high editorial standards. As is standard practice in these circumstances, we conducted an investigation to determine whether a breach of our editorial standards and practices had occurred. The investigation found that two members of the CTV News team were responsible for altering a video clip. Their actions violated our editorial standards and are unacceptable. As a result, those individuals are no longer members of the CTV News team nor are they employed by any Bell Media entity. This is a deeply regrettable situation.

In my 33-year career working in television news, this is the first time I have come across something like this. I hope that our response speaks to the importance we place on upholding our commitment to fairness, objectivity and the truth. Our duty is to provide accurate, fair and balanced coverage of the issues that matter to Canadians and to do so fully independently. It's of the utmost importance to us.

Moving forward, we will continue to work to earn the trust of the millions of Canadians who rely on us each and every day. Given the growing demand for round-the-clock news coverage, CTV News will continue to transform the way we deliver news to Canadians, both on television and online.

As someone with decades of experience in the news business, I have seen first-hand the decline in the trust in the media, in no small part due to the rise of misinformation and disinformation and their impact on media literacy. This concerns all of us. I hope we can spend our time together today discussing this challenge and potential solutions to combat misinformation and disinformation so that we can maintain and build trust in our institutions for the years to come.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Gray. I appreciate your being under time.

Just one of the things I found myself saying lately is that the dynamic between Zoom and in-person sessions is one that's difficult to manage oftentimes. Members with the limited time that they have will try to reclaim their time. I just don't want you to take that personally, Mr. Gray.

We're going to start with our first six-minute round. I'm going to go to Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Barrett, you have six minutes. Go ahead.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Sir, how much money does Bell Media or CTV News receive in annual subsidies from Justin Trudeau's Liberal government?

[Richard Gray]

Unlike the CBC, neither CTV nor CTV News receives any subsidies from the government. In fact, we're required to spend at least 30% of our annual revenue each year—which amounts to $1.2 billion since 2011—on Canadian programming expenditures. At the same time as all of this, we are losing $185 million a year on our television operations, including a loss of $40 million on news alone.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

CTV hasn't received any regulatory relief or wage relief in the last nine years. Is that your contention?

[Richard Gray]

We receive no subsidies from the government.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

The question was on regulatory relief or subsidies for wages in the last nine years.

[Richard Gray]

There was a decision made by the federal government recently that amounted to a $40-million impact on Bell Media, but it was not a subsidy. It was, in fact, the elimination of a tax on our revenues that had existed since 1997—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

There was $40 million in regulatory relief—I will skip ahead of you—and $122 million in subsidies for wages.

I want to talk about—

[Richard Gray]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Pardon me?

[Richard Gray]

The $40 million was not a subsidy.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Sir, you're correcting something that I didn't say. Let's get off on the right foot here. I referred to it as regulatory relief. There was $40 million in regulatory relief.

Did you receive $40 million in regulatory relief?

[Richard Gray]

We received $40 million in relief through the elimination of a tax.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. I have a sense of how this is going to go, so let's go.

We've seen a lot of examples of CTV activism masquerading as journalism. I want to give you a couple of examples of that.

On May 29 this year, you published a story entitled, “Poilievre panned for video saying Canadians fleeing to Nicaragua”. Of course, this story was about the Leader of the Opposition talking to Canadians who are suffering after nine years of a government whose economic vandalism has made it all but impossible for millions of Canadians to survive here.

On April 2, just days later, RBC released a report on housing trends and affordability, entitled, “Toughest time ever to afford a home as soaring interest costs keep raising the bar”. Again, that details the results of nine years of life under the NDP-Liberals. We don't see that. We don't see a story. I don't have a story to offer you from CTV on that, which speaks to the experience that Mr. Poilievre related about those Canadians.

Of course, we have the most recent example of the blatant disinformation spread by your network. There was disinformation that was perpetrated against Canadians and spread across your platforms. Instead of the message Mr. Poilievre gave—which is what we hear from millions of Canadians—on the need for a carbon tax election when Canadians “can't afford to eat, heat or house themselves”, you altered it. You altered that quote from Mr. Poilievre into one that reflected talking points from Justin Trudeau's Prime Minister's Office. We wouldn't have known about that most recent case if you hadn't been called out by a Conservative staffer.

You said you're sorry, but we know you're only sorry you got caught. Isn't that right?

[Richard Gray]

I disagree with your characterization.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Are you sorry?

[Richard Gray]

We have apologized twice for a mistake that occurred. We have done a—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Have you gone back and reviewed all of your coverage of Mr. Poilievre and his discussions about the Trudeau Liberals' carbon tax on everything? They plan to quadruple it, raising the price of gas to 60¢ a litre. It's seen one in four Canadians not know where their next meal is coming from. Food bank use has skyrocketed to records never seen before in this country.

Have you gone back and reviewed all of your coverage of Mr. Poilievre, or will it be incumbent upon the Conservatives to have to go through and review historically the disinformation that CTV has perpetrated against Canadians? Is that something that CTV is going to proactively do?

I can assure you, sir, that going forward, we know we now need to do this not just for ourselves but for Canadians, because the trust has certainly been broken.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I want to give Mr. Gray the chance to answer that, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Go ahead.

[Richard Gray]

Thank you.

I disagree with the characterization that we are engaged in a campaign of disinformation with respect to Canadians. It's our job to present all sides of public policy issues in a balanced, accurate and fair way so Canadians can make informed decisions on them. That's what we do consistently, on a daily basis.

This particular issue that happened on September 22—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Sir—

[Richard Gray]

—was a very rare and unique occurrence. It was a mistake and we apologized for it.