Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Where is ByteDance based?

[Steve de Eyre]

It's a global company.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Are you refuting that it's based in Beijing? Is that your testimony here today?

[Steve de Eyre]

There are offices in China for ByteDance. As I said, it has Chinese businesses and entities that it runs. For TikTok, our headquarters are in Singapore and Los Angeles.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You know, I've suspended my use of TikTok subsequent to inquiries about foreign interference that I take very seriously. I'm waiting for investigations to unfold.

I was an avid user of TikTok. I know many people who are. I give credence to what you're saying about people enjoying it. I would put to you that in fact the reason people spend so much time on TikTok is the power of the algorithms. It's the ability to profile people and continue to provide content to them that will essentially monopolize their time on the platform.

There still remains a concern, regardless of how you're answering it. You don't want to characterize ByteDance as a Chinese tech giant; I would. You don't want to say that it's Beijing-based; I would suggest that it is, yet here we are.

We have countries around the world, and I'll say specifically in the west, that are investigating the use of the algorithms that TikTok has. What do you have to say to people like me who have suspended their accounts because of the fears of the potential for foreign interference?

[Steve de Eyre]

Thanks for the question. I appreciate that.

I remember seeing your content on TikTok and I think you used it in a great way to engage with your constituents—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I don't need that, Mr. de Eyre. I need you to answer the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I need a quick response.

[Steve de Eyre]

We are absolutely committed to transparency, reporting on how we moderate content, where we store data and any government requests that we receive for data or content removal. We are transparent in posting that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's wonderful. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We'll now go to Mr. Caputo for five minutes and Ms. Khalid for five minutes, and that'll be it.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. de Eyre, I'm going to pick up on what my colleague Mr. Green was stating.

My recollection, and this was probably some time ago, was that government accounts were no longer able to use TikTok. Is that accurate?

[Steve de Eyre]

Currently there is an order from Treasury Board that says you can't use TikTok on a government-issued mobile device.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Right.

Did you have any interactions with the federal government after that occurred?

[Steve de Eyre]

We continue to engage with the government on policy issues. We did reach out and have some conversations with Treasury Board following that decision.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Do you recall, from your perspective, what the rationale was for the government taking that action?

[Steve de Eyre]

The government pointed to generalized concerns with data security. We provided the government with information about how we operate. Our public position at the time was that it didn't make Canadians safer to go after one platform. If Treasury Board, or the government, wanted to set rules for what types of apps should be on the devices of government employees, they should set a bar, and that should apply equally to all apps, not just to one app.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

If I understand you correctly, do you feel as though TikTok has been singled out? Would your data security be on par with perhaps the other organizations that we have here at committee today?

[Steve de Eyre]

Absolutely it would, yes.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

This is now about misinformation and disinformation, and we've talked a lot about Community Notes. Perhaps Ms. Hundley or Ms. Curran can help me out.

What is the equivalent of the Facebook Community Note?

[Rachel Curran]

We have the largest global fact-checking network of any of the online platforms. We work with over 90 different organizations around the world to fact-check content.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Let's say you fact-check something and it is false. What then?

[Rachel Curran]

We have a range of treatments we can apply to it. We can apply a screen that says that the content is false or partly false. It will link to an external organization's website, explaining what the fact-checking organization has found.

We can also downrank or demote that content so that it is less visible to our users. For content that is particularly problematic, we can remove it altogether. There are a range of different treatments.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Who decides what treatments a given post gets?

[Rachel Curran]

Our content review teams make the call on how content should be treated.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I see.

The reason I'm asking this is that Mr. de Eyre, in his opening remarks, talked about “prohibit misinformation that may cause significant harm.” It's a standard of some sort. I just have a cryptic note here that I wrote to myself.

Do you recall that, Mr. de Eyre?