Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[Dr. Lindsay Hundley]

It really is going to depend on the benefactor who is hiring the services and what they hire them for.

I will say that recently a lot of the disinformation-for-hire firms that we see Russian-origin operations using are providing high-volume but extremely low-quality content, in which they're focused primarily on just trying to undermine support for Ukraine, both domestically and internationally. That includes trying to undermine those who support Ukraine and supporting those who are less supportive of aid to Ukraine.

That's what we've seen, primarily, from the Russian-origin disinformation-for-hire firms recently.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Is it just Russia? Are you seeing it in India, for example? We saw reports: They have various media outlets also really focused on that type of campaign—maybe not—and I'm not sure how much of it is hitting your platforms.

[Dr. Lindsay Hundley]

Certainly the disinformation-for-hire trend is not unique to Russia. We have seen firms from a lot of different places. I don't recall, off the top of my head, whether we've seen any type of for-hire firm activity from India, but if we had, it would be as we previously disclosed.

That said, yes, I think there is also a distinction to make between disinformation-for-hire, when people are really lying about who they are and what they're doing, versus more overt influence operations that might be conducted through either overtly state-controlled media or state-aligned media.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Bains. I knew you were going to make a great point before I had to cut you off. I was going to cut you off, but then I let you go.

Thank you, Ms. Hundley.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll now turn to Mr. de Eyre, from TikTok.

Mr. de Eyre, aside from saying things to create a smokescreen or sidestep the issue, I'd rather you be very frank and explain the link between TikTok and China to me.

[Steve de Eyre]

TikTok is a global company. Our headquarters are in Singapore and Los Angeles. As I mentioned, three of our five board members are American or French. We store our user data in the U.S., Singapore and Malaysia.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

So the answer is that there is no link.

[Steve de Eyre]

TikTok does not operate in China. We are not a Chinese company.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

So there is no link between TikTok and a Chinese owner.

[Steve de Eyre]

We are owned 60% by global institutional investors, 20% by our founder and 20% by employees like me.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'm interested in the 20% held by the founder, Mr. Zhang Yiming.

It's a rather solid link.

[Steve de Eyre]

Again, he's the founder. He started the company. He's no longer the CEO or the chair of the company.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

He still holds 20% of the shares.

[Steve de Eyre]

That's correct.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Fernández, when we post a message on the platform X, why doesn't it automatically appear first on the news feed?

[Wifredo Fernández]

We have two distinct feeds. One is the “for you” feed and the other is the “following” feed. Those are two timelines.

One is powered by our recommendation algorithm, which is public. We published it last year for the world to see and give us feedback on.

The other is a reverse chronological feed of the accounts that you are following.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In your opinion, if it were possible to display the messages that are published on the global account of platform X in chronological order, could this help reduce the incidence of disinformation?

[Wifredo Fernández]

Again, that's a user choice and a user control that they have. When they log into the app or are on the web, they're able to select which feed and which timeline they would like to explore.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Do you think Twitter would benefit from offering no choice but to automatically display messages in chronological order?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Please answer very briefly, Mr. Fernández.

[Wifredo Fernández]

You have two principal timelines that are fixed—the “for you” and the “following”—and the user has a choice of which they want to navigate to.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, go ahead. You have two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Many of the questions of the previous round were around the ownership of ByteDance. I did hear what I would consider to be sometimes weasel words that were used in explanations. I'll tell you why. The question wasn't about where it operates, where its servers are or who the board members are; the question was about the origins of ByteDance.

This is for the TikTok representative, Mr. de Eyre: Is it not fair to say that ByteDance, under Chinese law, does require compliance with Chinese law?

[Steve de Eyre]

ByteDance has entities that operate exclusively outside of China, such as TikTok. It also operates businesses inside China. TikTok does not operate in China. We do not store data—