Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[Steve de Eyre]

We disagree with the methods and the research—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

That's not the premise of my question. The premise of my question was that the report said this; what was your opinion on the report?

[Steve de Eyre]

Our opinion on the report is that it used extremely flawed methods. It's misleading. There's no peer-reviewed research. Previous research done by that organization has been debunked by other outside analysts. Their method was creating fake accounts that interact with our platform in a way that normal human users would never do, so we have serious concerns about that report and their conclusions.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I can only understand the methodology of the report from what the report says is its methodology.

The report states, “On November 13, 2023, TikTok issued a letter defending itself against accusations of anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bias”—which is something that I've actually been in discussions with TikTok on, and I agree that TikTok is doing its best to try to confront that.

The report continues, “TikTok prolifically compares relative hashtags between its platform and Instagram to buttress its argument. We have replicated TikTok’s methodology”—that is in this letter of November 13, 2023—“to assess whether anomalies exist regarding the relative representation of issues on TikTok vs. Instagram.”

The methodology they used in the study that you say is debunked is actually the same methodology that you used in that letter that was sent to disprove something else.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Give a very quick response, please.

[Steve de Eyre]

I'd be happy to follow up. Some of my colleagues would be happy to meet with you as well to explain our concerns in more detail.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you. That would be great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather and Mr. de Eyre.

Mr. Villemure, you have two and a half minutes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to turn to Mr. de Eyre, from TikTok.

You know, there's a very important element that nobody wants to talk about. Section 7 of China's National Intelligence Law and the future of intelligence rivalries with the country states that all Chinese organizations and citizens must support, assist and co‑operate with the country's intelligence services.

How does the TikTok network comply with these requirements?

[Steve de Eyre]

We are not a Chinese company. We have never provided information, Canadian user data, to the Chinese government. TikTok isn't available in China. We wouldn't provide that information if we were asked.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

It's hard to believe.

I understand that there's ByteDance in between, the structure of the company, the board of directors with a European base, and so on.

Intelligence services in several countries are banning TikTok. There are reasons for this. It's not just because we don't like the logo. TikTok is seen as a security risk. TikTok engages in mind control, according to some.

I'm stunned by this story regarding Chinese law.

How can you reassure me?

[Steve de Eyre]

I mean, I think you just have to look at our platform and the way that millions of Canadians are using it. It's really a place for creativity and joy, for learning new things. We've just recently—

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting you.

Why have several governments banned TikTok, then?

[Steve de Eyre]

I mean, I focus on Canada. I can really only speak for Canada. I'd be happy to follow up if you have questions about any specific countries or regions.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'd like to know why several countries have banned TikTok. We could name them, but that would be a bit long.

You must have an opinion on this.

[Steve de Eyre]

Again, I am happy to answer questions about Canada. That's my role and that's what I'm here to talk about today.

We are very proud of and confident in the work we do to protect our platform and protect user data and Canadian user data. Our moderation practices are open and transparent. As I talked about in my opening statement, we have global public community guidelines, and those are what we base our content moderation decisions on.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

My first question is for Google.

Is Google a signatory to the EU Code of Practice on Disinformation?

[Jeanette Patell]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this.

Yes, I believe that Google is a signatory.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

The next question is for Meta. It's the same.

Is Meta a signatory to the EU Code of Practice on Disinformation?

[Rachel Curran]

I don't know the answer to that question, but I would be happy to follow up.

[Dr. Lindsay Hundley]

I can add that we are.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for TikTok.

TikTok, are you a signatory of the EU Code of Practice on Disinformation?

[Steve de Eyre]

I'm going to let my colleague Justin answer that.