Evidence of meeting #138 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was review.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That's the justice minister, yes.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay. Thank you for that.
Does that cause you any concern, given that in many of these investigations, there is exposure on the part of the government? I'm not trying in any way to impugn the integrity of the justice minister, but there is a perception, certainly, that there isn't the same level of independence that there would be if, for example, you could refer the matter directly to the authorities, such as the RCMP.
Is that something that you would like to see happen?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Actually, that was one of the recommendations I made in my submission to the legislative review in 2019. I suggested that it should be changed to be exactly like the Lobbying Act, where I can refer directly to a police force: the RCMP, or the provincial or municipal entity that's responsible for investigating.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Can you elaborate a little bit on why you would like to be able to report directly to the authorities that would have jurisdiction to investigate whatever the matter may be, as opposed to sending it to the Attorney General?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The process would be more transparent, and it would be more direct, so the police would have direct access to the evidence.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Would you say that, at present, the Access to Information Act is antiquated and in need of being updated?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I totally agree with your statement.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay, thank you for that.
You've made a recommendation, as far back as 2019, to be able to report directly to the authorities rather than to the Attorney General as one change in the mechanisms available to you provided for under the act. The government has indicated that they're not going to be making any further amendments to the act. The best they've offered is a review in 2025. Are you disappointed with the government's response in that regard?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I was disappointed. I still believe that we need a review of the legislation, which was not done in 2019. I'm hoping that when they say they will review the act in 2025, they will actually do it, but to start a review is a different thing than actually doing a review.
Conservative
November 5th, 2024 / 5:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That act is from 1983. It's 40 years old. It did have some changes in 2019, with Bill C-58, but the changes were not sufficient.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay, good. There's a little bit of time.
Ms. Bélanger, the review for the Lobbying Act was originally done in 2012—correct me if I'm wrong. It was supposed to be done in 2017. It was not done. Here we are in 2024, and it still hasn't been done. Is that correct?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It should have been done in 2017. It should have been done again in 2022, and here we are. We've missed two during my mandate.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Bains, you have five minutes. Please go ahead.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both of our commissioners for joining us today.
I know there was some discussion around Forecheck Strategies. A CBC article dated March 22 reads:
Some lobbyists listed as working for Forecheck Strategies on the federal lobbying database are listed as employees on the website of Jenni Byrne + Associates, but not on the website of Forecheck Strategies.
This continues now, as lobbyists for Jenni Byrne + Associates are filing communication reports as employees of Forecheck Strategies, a firm where they do not work.
In your last appearance, you said it was the responsibility of the lobbyist to register. Does a lobbyist have to confirm they work for the company for which they are registering? That's to the Commissioner of Lobbying.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
There are two types of lobbyists. There are lobbyists who work for consulting firms and represent clients, so when they register on behalf of a client, they will indicate who their client is, and then there are some in-house lobbyists who have an employer. They're not in a government relations firm. They work for their organization or corporation, and part of their duties is to communicate with federal officials. In the case of organizations and corporations, the responsibility is on the senior official, while if you work for government relations, the responsibility is on the actual consultant.
Liberal
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Each individual consultant lobbyist is responsible for their actions, yes, if they're a consultant lobbyist.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Is it a concern for you that someone can register as a lobbyist for a company where they're not an employee?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The Lobbying Act allows that. The Lobbying Act allows consultants to represent companies and organizations. That's permissible, because that is the work they do. That is a profession. It is recognized by the Lobbying Act as a legitimate activity to lobby, as long as it's transparent and ethical. Consultant lobbyists will register on behalf of their client, which will usually be an organization or a corporation. I don't have concerns if there's an actual registration. Once they're registered, they're subject to the code of conduct.
I will not discuss Forecheck. That is also a file I am reviewing. I'm just giving you the explanation of how the act works.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Yes, and I'm trying to understand.
Does it raise suspicions for you? You said that you're not concerned as long as people are doing it in an ethical manner, but people are fluid in their registrations. Is this something that you would recommend cleaning up in some capacity?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
We keep an eye on our registration, for sure. Every registration is approved by my advisers. We look at the information that is provided, and then we approve the registration. It's an offence not to be accurate, so they had better be accurate in their registration. If they're not accurate and I find out about it, I'll investigate them.
There are ethical rules in place, and if there are allegations.... There are over 9,000 registered lobbyists. There are a lot of them, and there is a lot of action happening. There were 34,000 oral and arranged communications last year, so there is a lot of lobbying occurring. We're keeping an eye on as much as we can.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay, but what I'm trying to get to is that it's not the organization they're representing but it's the lobbying firm they register that they work for that's the concern. Whether they're consultants or whatever, it's the actual work.
That's my question, if you understand me.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Individuals are entitled to work where they want to work. I can't regulate that. Once they work somewhere, and they choose to become lobbyists and represent a client, then they need to be transparent about it. If they're not transparent about it and doing it, that's an offence. If they are transparent about it, and the information is accurate, they're subject to a code of conduct, and they need to ensure that they comply by the code of conduct.