Evidence of meeting #138 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was review.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank both of our witnesses for being here and for communicating in the professional and forthright way that they have.
I'm going to go first to the Commissioner of Lobbying.
This is my first time asking you questions. My understanding is that you draw a distinction between a review and an investigation. Is that correct?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The review is part of an investigative process, because if I start looking for information, it's an investigation. Do I need to pursue it to ensure compliance and start possibly issuing production orders and subpoenas, etc.? Most of the time I don't have to do that because people provide me with the information. There is a lot of information out there that we obtain and start looking at, and we very quickly know that we're not going to pursue it because there's nothing there.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It's really a process, and it's part and parcel of an investigation. Everything I do, I do it under the section that your colleague has quoted.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
The reason I ask that—and I may have misheard you, so please correct me if I'm wrong—is that one of the issues that have been raised today is with respect to Mark Carney, and I believe you said you are looking into it. I took that to mean you're reviewing it. Is that accurate?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
That means that I'm looking into it. Whether I'm in the investigating stage of it, I will not confirm that.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Of course. That's why I asked whether there was a difference between looking at something versus an investigation, because I think you gave a number—119 or 116. I think that was the number of investigations you mentioned earlier.
November 5th, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I've opened close to 170 files since I've been in office.
Conservative
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I would say that close to 25 or 30 led to full-blown investigations.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Would Mark Carney's case fit into the 170 you've looked into but not into the 20 or 25 that resulted in full-blown investigations?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I will only confirm that everything I look into fits into that 170. When I start actually investigating, I don't confirm, because I do not want to jeopardize possible criminal investigations.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I understand that. I'm just trying to see where we're at. When you say, “I'm looking into something”, and then it's being done under the authority of legislation, I think you can see....
What is the threshold for you looking into something?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'll start by saying that I look into everything. The moment there are communications with any of you—public office holders, public servants, senators—that are not in our registry, I look into it. Very often, that leads to nothing. It will be a volunteer organization, or one communication clearly does not meet a 30-hour threshold. But I do look into everything.
Then, I will communicate with public office holders to determine the amount of communication and how much communication occurred over a span of time. Once I get that information, if I have doubts that we're now into lobbying that was not registered, I will trigger what we call the investigation. Then it proceeds from there.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
When it comes to Mr. Carney, we have several discrete areas of interest that I'm interested in. One of them is the heat pump issue. I think my colleague Mr. Barrett called it the heat pump hustle. I won't attempt to steal his quote on that. We also have his involvement with Stripe. We have him issuing a fundraising email on behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada. We have his involvement with Brookfield, and Brookfield then looking for $10 billion of new investments. Then we have a $2-billion contract to a company whose CEO is close to Mr. Carney.
Are you able to say whether any one of those discrete issues, if you will, would rise to the threshold I just mentioned of you having to look into something?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I will not comment on a file.
Conservative
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
All right.
I wish you both all the best.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
That took three seconds.
We'll go to Mr. Fisher for five minutes.
Go ahead, sir.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to both of you for being here today.
Ms. Maynard, according to your most recent annual report, only 16% of complaints were well founded. How much of your office's capacity is impacted by these unfounded or unwarranted or trivial or malicious complaints?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The percentage you referred to is investigations that lead to a result of well founded. Then an order is usually issued. That really is a small amount, because we are trying our best to resolve complaints informally.
The role of my office is to make sure that requesters are getting as quickly as possible the information they are entitled to or that a response is provided to them. We do an investigation. We investigate until that response is provided. Then we cease the investigation if that response is given during the investigation. There's a lot of time and effort done in those cases. Almost 80% of our investigations lead to a result, a positive result, but not to a report itself.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
How has the proportion of those unfounded claims changed from, say, seven years ago? Has it changed proportionally in your seven years?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It seems to be very similar every year in terms of what we find to be founded and not well founded.
Unfortunately, some institutions are still using section 21, for example, which is about advice and recommendations, in cases where there is information that is not advice and recommendations. We will let them know right away during an investigation. Sometimes we convince them during the investigation and the information is released, but there's a lot of work done in the background to get that information released. Now, because I have the authority to issue orders, we don't spend too much time negotiating. We try to get the information voluntarily. If not, we issue an order. In the last seven years, I've issued over 700 orders.
Liberal
Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
How do you foresee the number of these complaints...? Going back to your annual report, it's 16% for this year. Has it always been about 16%?