Evidence of meeting #138 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was review.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
To say that I didn't conduct an investigation is completely false and unfounded. I don’t know where that person got that information.
I look at everything; on the Facebook, WE, and SNC-Lavalin files, I certainly did what I normally do and confirmed that I was looking at all the files.
Bloc
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It's objective, impartial, honest, and carried out with respect for people and democracy.
I do so with transparency as much as possible.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I assume that your objective is always to maintain public confidence and the credibility of the institution.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, absolutely.
It's important that lobbying be done in a transparent and ethical manner. If the rules aren't followed, it's my role to ensure that they are, and I do my job.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
After being around for many years, lobbying has developed a negative aura for a lot of people, who think it’s about deals between people who know each other, or other such things.
Do you have any plans to educate the public on this?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
As I said earlier, we've managed to talk to over 9,000 people over the past seven years. My first message is always to say that lobbying in Canada is not the same as it is in the United States. Lobbying here is recognized as a legitimate activity, as long as it's transparent and ethical.
The problem is that there's still work to be done in terms of transparency. That's where the law must be changed.
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I hear you loud and clear. That’s a recommendation we certainly have to take into consideration.
Last year, we discussed the Lobbyists’ Code of Conduct, which had been updated, if I can put it that way.
Are you satisfied? What has it changed in your daily activities?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'm very satisfied.
I would add that most of the lobbyists I met during my presentations appreciate having clear rules. However, we're getting a lot more calls than we used to because they want us to confirm whether their behaviour is ethical or not.
That has increased our workload in a very positive way. This isn't a complaint at all. That’s great, because we didn’t get calls before. We didn’t know what was going on. I'm now aware of receptions that organizations want to organize and gifts they want to give. They inform me.
Providing advice to ensure that the behaviour of lobbyists remains ethical helps us do our job.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Providing education to the public would be interesting because, as I told you, I get a lot of emails and calls telling me that so-and-so did this and so-and-so did that. In general, I refer them to your office. However, to ensure people’s trust, couldn't something be done with regard to the public?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, absolutely, and that’s certainly one of the goals I often discuss with my team. But we have a small team and that's a problem. Also, how do we reach out to people who are interested, knowing that not everybody is interested?
Bloc
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
So I’ll start with the X platform.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure and Ms. Bélanger.
Mr. Green, you have six minutes, sir. Go ahead.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much, sir.
Ms. Maynard, you've stated many times, including in your special report to Parliament in May 2024, that “the best access request remains the one that did not need to be made in the first place.” Can you elaborate on this idea?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I believe in transparency by default. I believe our institutions should use that as their first means to provide information to Canadians. We should not have to ask for information through an access request. We should not have to wait 30 days. We should be able to click on Google and get the information from the Internet and pages that are already public.
Institutions that are receiving requests multiple times on the same subjects should know that this is something people want to know about, and they should publish that information instead of waiting for an access request. That's what it means.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
You may recall in your time that, from July 2018 until October 2021, the Liberal government actually had a minister of digital government, who was seemingly responsible for providing information technologies as a whole-of-government approach, as well as for digital strategies and programs at the Treasury Board Secretariat.
In your time, did you witness any real efforts to see this ministry, or at least this mandate under Minister Murray at the time and Minister Brison before her, move toward this idea of open by default? Certainly, it's something the Liberal government campaigned on, but it seems that at some time in 2021, it just pulled the plug on it.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Unfortunately, I have not been kept in the loop of what the minister has been doing with respect to digitization. We know there is work being done, but unfortunately the number of access requests has not gone down, so it doesn't seem to be having an impact on the information provided.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
They abolished it in October 2021. I was just wondering if, in your time, you saw any material improvement and then decline, or was this an exercise in futility?
I'll go back to the funding model. On March 7, 2023, during your appearance before our committee, you made the following statement. It was a strong one. You said:
I strongly believe that a model that gives the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister the power to limit the required funding of agents of Parliament is contrary to our oversight role. As agents of Parliament, we report directly to Parliament, rather than to the cabinet or a particular minister. Frankly, the manner in which we are funded should reflect this independence.
Do you still have the same position on the issue?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes, I do, 100%.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
It was also reported, if I recall correctly, that your department was positioned in a structural deficit resulting from unfunded salary increases that were, further to the collective agreement, negotiated by the Treasury Board.
Is that still the case?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes. In June, we were told that the only way to resolve this situation was through an off-cycle budget ask, which we submitted in June. To this day, I haven't heard whether that budget request has been submitted to the finance minister by the Minister of Justice.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
This really is a practical example of the flaw in the funding model to begin with. In fact, when left to political or partisan actors, you're effectively left with this structural deficit.
Is that correct? Is it safe to say that causation and correlation are one and the same here?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'm kept out of the loop. That's the reason I believe that we have to have a different mechanism, so we can have that discussion with the parliamentary people we are reporting to and so we can ask for funding and provide evidence for these requests that we need additional funding.