Evidence of meeting #138 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was review.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The work we are currently doing is limited to the extent that I don't have the necessary resources to do all the work that is before us.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mrs. Shanahan.
Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you both, ladies, for being here today.
These conversations are always pleasant because both of you are the guardians of the public’s integrity and trust in the machinery of government.
Ms. Maynard, I’m going to ask you a question that I asked you last year.
Does the Government of Canada have a culture of transparency or darkness?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That’s a difficult question to answer.
Every year, we have more access to information requests and more complaints. This is because institutions often don't provide the requested information quickly, or they redact the information provided to complainants. So they come to our office to ensure that the law is respected. Unfortunately, we find that exclusions and exemptions are often and quickly used in the act instead of discretion and voluntary or proactive disclosure.
Bloc
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes. We often see responses to access to information requests whose pages are completely blacked out.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Without being embarrassed, we can say that darkness is something you often see.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes, and the act allows for that.
That said, although there are situations where discretion could be used to provide more information, we often don't see use of that discretion for the benefit of Canadians, which is unfortunate.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Information is power. The power of the people depends very much on what the Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada can do.
You mentioned a couple of times the need for independence. What is the government’s response when you talk about the need for independence?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I'd say this is where I can flag that situation. The issue of independence should also be raised in the review of the act.
In the report presented by the committee, I remember that you had agreed to make a recommendation in that regard. Whether it be Ms. Bélanger, any officer of Parliament or myself, our mandate is to conduct investigations independently. However, when we need additional funding, we shouldn't have to ask for it from departments that are being investigated by agents of Parliament.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
No, because such a situation can lead to mistrust among the public.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Unfortunately, this might lead people to believe that we could be influenced by this mechanism.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay.
The public watching the actions of the Commissioner and the Office of the Information Commissioner might think that impartiality, while desired, may be uncertain.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The public may wonder because I have to investigate complaints against ministers or departments that are also responsible for approving my budget requests.
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
If independence could be achieved—that's what we want—do you think that this could increase the confidence and credibility of the institution and the machinery of government itself?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Absolutely.
We are agents of Parliament. We should report to Parliament. We should be accountable to Parliament. So you would be responsible for asking us questions about our budget, about the expenditures we are making and why we need more money. If we have too much, it’s also a matter of returning it. It's the same process.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
In the case of the Winnipeg laboratory, a major report had been produced. It was largely blacked out. Even the page numbers were. As a result of the work of a committee of which I was a member, much of the redaction in the report was dropped. It gave me a sense of overclassification.
First, I'm concerned about this overclassification. Second, when I look at the work of the Hogue commission on a daily basis, I look at the documents released by government institutions and I find what can be considered to be overclassification.
Do you have any advice on that?
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The right to information is the right of Canadians and the right of parliamentarians. That's how we can learn how decisions are made, how money is spent.
When I give advice, it’s to the institutions. You’re right, if a document has page numbers and even the page number, the headings, and the subsections are blacked out, it doesn’t give the impression that the person provided information that can be released. It will be even worse later on, if, through an investigation, we realize that the exemption or exclusion was not applied appropriately and that the law wasn't respected.
Obviously, when they see completely blacked out documents, Canadians ask questions and file complaints with our office.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
It certainly prevents the public from understanding.
However, with respect to classification, it's understood that paragraphs can be summarized and that there is an alternative to redaction.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Some exclusions are made in a normal way. Even in my office, investigations are conducted confidentially, so if you look at requests that were sent to us, you'll see that we often have to redact, because our investigations are done confidentially.
However, I'm telling institutions and departments that, if they are able to provide information, they should do so. People will have a better understanding of the decisions and a greater confidence that the information they receive is reliable. They'll be able to understand the decisions and policies of a department.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Villemure.
The next questioner is Mr. Green, for six minutes.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Ms. Bélanger, you are heading into your second term. What would you do differently? Knowing what you know now, would you treat your second term a little bit differently?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It's not official yet that I will be starting a second term, but should I have that honour, what I would do differently is not much, actually. I am very much results-oriented. I believe in what I'm doing. Maybe I personally would learn to accept that I can't get everything done that I want done because I have only 30 employees, but I wouldn't do much differently.
