Evidence of meeting #142 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hamel.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
Thank you.
If I may, I'd like to correct a few things that have been said a few times. I'll come back to your question afterwards.
The fact that a driver or a delivery person refuses a certain number of trips—
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Mr. Hamel, I'll give you a minute to do so, but then I would like to move to the question that I just posed to you.
Conservative
Conservative
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
I don't have that information on hand. We'll get back to the committee on that.
The acceptance rate for drivers and deliver people has no impact, as it does for past consumer behaviour. We have to be very clear about that. There's no impact.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I would be very interested. Mr. Hamel, it's my time, and I would just put on the record that I would be very interested to see what that rate of return is and how that compares to CRA's mileage allowance.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
That's question four for Monsieur Hamel. I'll make sure the clerk follows up on Mr. Cooper's question.
We go to Mr. Bains.
You have six minutes, Mr. Bains. Go ahead, sir.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us today.
I will say that there have been several very good, pointed questions, and a lot of information coming out from this study. Fundamentally, we're trying to figure out.... The concern for me is, are drivers and gig workers being exploited, but at the same time, are customers and consumers being exploited? I think one of the key things we see in algorithms or these types of models—in different industries and different sectors—is the hidden fees and junk fees, so I'd like to talk a bit about that.
With respect to driving up costs, what methodologies do you use for every single fee that is associated with a ride? We're seeing it in concert ticket sales. We see it in Uber and Lyft, in ride-share and delivery apps. Can you, in an answer, try to indicate what kind of methodology or algorithm you formulate for these fees? Do they go up and down? Are they relative to whatever the ride is? If you cannot, I'd like an itemized fee structure or the methodology or algorithm that you use, in writing, later on. If you can explain, please do, and if not.... In addition, actually, I would like to see an itemized list of how you determine those hidden or junk fees.
That's for Mr. Hamel.
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
Thank you.
For both Uber Eats and Uber, when it comes to passenger transportation, consumers see all the costs before they place their order.
In very concrete terms, as soon as the Uber Eats application opens, a service and delivery fee notification pops up.
In addition, and again in a very concrete way, when you access a restaurant's page, the delivery and service fees are posted. They can vary from $2 to $4 in all provinces, depending on the regulations.
All fees are passed on to consumers in a very transparent manner before they place an order.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
When you talk about the varying of those fees, do they escalate or de-escalate based on the cost of the item, or is it a standard, set fee?
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
Let's take the case of Uber Eats. The cost of the order is posted item by item, and the delivery fees are also posted very clearly. Those delivery fees can vary a bit depending on the distance of the restaurant, for example.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Based on the price of the item, does it go up or down?
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
Delivery costs don't vary based on the price of the item. However, service fees vary in proportion to the size of the order, while remaining between $2 and $4.
Again, all of that is posted before the customer even selects the restaurant. When the restaurant is selected, delivery fees and service fees are clearly displayed.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Hold on, Mr. Bains. I have stopped your time.
We have a bit of a problem with translation there, so we're trying to figure it out.
Could we do a test?
Okay, I have translation back.
I am going to hold off on your time right now and allow Mr. Hamel to repeat what he just said for the benefit of the members of the committee based on the question you asked.
Go ahead, Mr. Hamel.
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
Delivery costs don't depend on the size of the order. However, service fees, while remaining between $2 and $4, vary depending on the size of the order.
That said, you have to understand that, even before placing an order and even before choosing the first dish, the delivery costs are very clearly indicated on the restaurant's page. The same is true for service fees, which can indeed vary from $2 to $4. Before confirming the order, the customer will see, for example, that the service fee is $2.59. Those fees are clearly displayed before payment.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
I'll go to Ms. Bednar.
You talked about junk fees, and you have some expertise in that matter. Similar to the questions I asked Mr. Hamel, could you expand on what your thoughts are, what you studied on this and how it may relate to the gig economy?
Executive Director, Master of Public Policy in Digital Society Program, McMaster University, As an Individual
Of course. Thank you.
Just because you see a fee, that doesn't mean it isn't junk. They're often dressed up with quite fancy names. I believe in B.C., starting last week, one fee was a “regulatory recapture fee”. You'll know better than I do. That was in response to legislation in B.C. mandating more of a wage floor, so the fee was passed on to people. Does that make it junk? Maybe or maybe not.... The fluctuation of those fees suggests that they are part of a company's pricing strategy to extract the maximum value from people.
Kudos to Canada, because two years ago, we outlawed drip pricing. You have to advertise, as we've heard, the full price up front. You cannot add fees on as you go through a checkout.
We've seen an unbundling of work. Typically, when we employ someone as a cashier—say, at The Water Store—there's a premium on their time. We're paying them an hourly rate. Uber and companies like it have unbundled work so that you're paid for time on task. Now the theory is to only pay that cashier when they're ringing items through, instead of paying them for their time being at your beck and call—being on call for you. That's part of this larger erosion and the conversation we're having about accessing rides and delivery.
I veered away from junk fees. I'm sorry.
December 3rd, 2024 / 5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Mr. Bains, we're over time here.
Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Hamel, does Uber subscribe to the European privacy directive?
Public Affairs Manager, Uber Canada
Uber's policy complies with all Canadian regulations, and it also meets the standards set in the EU.
Bloc