Information & Ethics Committee on Jan. 13th, 2022

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the members for raising this very important issue.

I really laud MP Brassard for his concern about privacy and data protection in the digital age. I'm hoping that we can build that consensus to ensure that governments of the day and, quite frankly, governments of the future respect the privacy of Canadians in what is becoming less and less private as we go through the digital age.

I want to put in some points of clarification that Mr. Brassard raised.

He mentioned in the letter calling for this meeting that Canadians were unaware. A number of news articles have been published over the past number of years, including a statement by the Prime Minister on March 23, 2020, about entering into a contract. Then there was an article on April 14, 2020, in which the chief public health officer, Theresa Tam, told reporters she was convening a federal-provincial-territorial group of officials on the use of cellphone location data. She said there was a significant amount of interest, but she noted that there were many innovators with lots of different ideas, each of which would need to be evaluated on metrics like privacy. That was back in April of 2020.

In considering ways to combat this pandemic and ensure that Canadians are kept safe, I took into account what accountability and transparency really look like in relation to privacy. In fact, the RFP that's been put forward clearly says that the contractor must :

protect...privacy by: providing de-identified data to ensure the anonymized nature of the data, [remove] all personal identifiers, and grant users the ability to easily opt-out of mobility data sharing programs.

When I read this, I went back to Mr. Brassard's letter. I noticed that the terms “mobility data” and “mobile data” were being used kind of interchangeably, which I think highlights that we need to learn about this issue. All these news articles—in fact, even those that Mr. Brassard refers to—talk about mobility data and aggregated data, and I think there is a very important distinction.

Having said that, I do believe this is an important study. I'm hoping we can build that consensus and set aside partisanship, as Mr. Fergus said, and ensure that we are doing the right thing for Canadians as we grapple with what I think is going to be the most pivotal issue of our lifetime as we deal with the digital age.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Thank you.

Ms. Saks, I saw that you had your hand up. Do you wish to speak on this motion?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I do not at this time, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

All right.

There being no other speakers, is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt this motion?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, because we're not in the room, and there are members in the room, we're not really sure if members in the room want to participate.

Can you please clarify what the speaking order is?

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I had nobody in the room who wished to speak, so the speaking order was exhausted.

I'm putting the question to the committee.

All those in favour of the—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I had some questions around the text of the motion and I thought I would give a chance to my colleagues to also speak before we went into the text of the motion.

Is that okay with you, Mr. Chair, and then with my colleagues?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, it was certainly very clear to us in the room that the speaking list had been exhausted. I believe that the chair rightly had even called for any further speakers. There were no more speakers on the speaking list, and that was very clear here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Thank you, Mr. Kurek.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

In response to that, Mr. Chair, if that's okay—

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I always find that we should always have that spirit of further debate and further dialogue and conversation. We spoke at length about ensuring that there is consensus as we move forward with this important study, and I'm hoping that members can allow for a significant and substantive discussion on the motion itself.

Having read the motion, I see that there are some logistical challenges and that we just wouldn't be able to meet if we did adopt this motion. If members allow, I would like to move an amendment to the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I'm going to ask for just one moment before I continue. I need to confer with the clerk for a moment.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

On a point or order, Mr. Brassard, go ahead.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It goes back to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I had better do this in order. I had some hands up, but I would like to deal with these quickly.

Mr. Fergus and Ms. Saks, are these points of order that you are raising? If so, I will hear them now, starting with Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe I ran into a minor technical glitch. I just wanted to make an amendment that I hope will be considered a friendly amendment to Mr. Brassard's motion. That's why I raised my hand. I actually thought I had already raised it, but I hadn't.

Mr. Chair, I know you are in the middle of a discussion with the clerk and I don't want to take up too much of your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Indeed. Given the nature of that discussion and given that we're in a hybrid format and there are challenges around that, I'm trying to allow some latitude, but I had in fact called the question, and once a vote.... There had been no debate and there were no speakers either on Zoom or in the room, so I was in the process of—

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

On a point of order—

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

—commencing a vote and we hadn't gone to a recorded vote—

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

All right. Go ahead, Ms. Saks.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you.

As I was the last one to speak with my hand up, it was made clear to me that Ms. Hepfner had been trying to raise her hand to speak after me and was having technical difficulties. It was very unclear to those on the Zoom screen that we were ready to call the question. In this hybrid format we are in, and for the sake of our all working constructively towards a successful motion so that we can explore this important issue, I would ask that the technical issues we are all navigating, including Ms. Hepfner's, be taken into consideration before you insist on calling the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

I'm going to Mr. Brassard and then I'll ask Ms. Hepfner if she has resolved her technical issue.

Go ahead.