Information & Ethics Committee on May 16th, 2022

[Caroline Maynard]

I would have to ask you to check with the Treasury Board because this is a part of the Treasury Board policy with respect to what an institution must do when they respond to access requests. I do have some complainants who are telling me that some of these requests that they've made are not even published on the website of the institution. It's something that we may look into. I know people are complaining about it, but it hasn't come to us as a specific complaint per se.

I think it would be helpful for people to have access to those longer. That's something maybe your committee can look into, a good timeline for this access. After a while, some of the information is maybe not relevant anymore, but is two years too short?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thanks for that. It's really helpful.

I know that members have been asking—and obviously this whole meeting is—about the spending of your office. Prior to our government taking over in 2015, you had spending authorities for $9.9 million, out of which you spent $9.3 million. Last year, 2021-22, you had spending authorities of $14.9 million, which is a significant increase, and you spent $14.5 million. This year you have $16.3 million in spending authorities.

These are significant increases, and we're seeing that the number of staff is increasing as well. Do you think that these increases are helpful to how we're building that public trust within government, which is a significant role that your office fulfills?

[Caroline Maynard]

Totally.

We definitely needed more people and resources with respect to the new authorities with Bill C-58. Some of the money you see in the increase comes from that.

We requested additional funding for four years in a row through a submission to Treasury Board. That was given to us on a temporary basis for three years, but finally I got it on a permanent basis two years ago. That's definitely helpful because with temporary funding, all you can do is hire people and let them go at the end of the year. There is no retention possibility. Now we have a more permanent base, but as I said earlier, it's already not enough, unfortunately.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

As things are getting more digitized, we're seeing information being stored online.

How does that impact your office? How does that impact the whole regime of access to and freedom of information?

[Caroline Maynard]

When the information is already public, an institution can use this as a reason to not respond to an access request and just refer the requester to that information. More information that is published will definitely lead to fewer access requests or more specific access requests. People may see some information and may ask for specifics based on that.

Right now, we see that the information that's provided is not what Canadians are asking for. Unfortunately, they can't find the information that they want, so they have to go through the access request system.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

How does that interplay with privacy laws within our country?

[Caroline Maynard]

I'm not sure I understand.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

When we request ATIPs or freedom of information, if it's with respect to a certain individual or a certain file versus what some have classified as cabinet confidence, how does that impact privacy laws of an individual person, if somebody can use FOI for somebody else's private information?

Is there legalisation? Is this a concern of your office?

[Caroline Maynard]

Actually, there's an exemption right now under the Access to Information Act, where personal information is redacted unless you have consent or the information is public. It's probably the most used exemption through access requests that we see.

It's rarely questionable. Our institutions understand what privacy and protection of information is. We have a few cases where we don't agree with the institution, but that's really rare and we take that very seriously. We do have a good report from the Privacy Commissioner on those types of cases.

[Le président, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Thank you.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

How would you define confidence, Commissioner?

[Caroline Maynard]

Confidence is knowing that the information we're allowed to give to people is right and complete, and they can use it to state their views or make decisions on certain subjects.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much.

Now, let's go a little higher up the ladder and talk about the government in general. I have often defined confidence as not needing to prove anything at all.

Do the people have confidence in the government?

[Caroline Maynard]

You should ask Canadians that question. There was an election recently. I think people are curious and they ask a lot of questions. I personally have three young boys and they often ask some pretty tough questions. I think that's where this generation of Canadians is at.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Social media have definitely made it easier to ask questions.

Do you see a connection between confidence in government and the number of substantiated requests your office receives?

[Caroline Maynard]

I don't know that any connection should be made with the number of substantiated ATIP requests. However, I can tell you that if the government can give them the information they are requesting quickly, Canadians will be less likely to turn to sources that are not very reliable or to social media, which can provide false information.

That's why the government has a responsibility to provide the requested information as quickly as possible. That way, even if they do not agree about some information or certain decisions, at least people have a better understanding of what was done and the circumstances under which it was done.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

This explains very well the second part of your mission, which involves government-wide accountability. If more information were disclosed, at least we would know that the information disclosed is true, unlike the misinformation often conveyed on social media, in particular. At least we would have a chance to get the real facts and have the right discussion.

Is that accurate?

[Caroline Maynard]

That's right.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

We will follow your recommendations on that.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pat Kelly]

Thank you.

Now we go to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I see here that according to your office, you are looking at and giving special attention to gender-based analysis plus in your departmental plan. The plan says, “In terms of whether the OIC's program contains any barriers to access, the OIC is assessing how best to collect disaggregated data on complaints from members of GBA+ groups.” I bring that up because I know there's a specific issue regarding a Black class action lawsuit, and I think you have alluded to the way in which Crown privilege tends to obstruct some of the information that goes and flows.

I wonder if you're currently investigating on behalf of Black public service workers the concealing of critical disaggregated data from the period of 1991 to 2018.

[Caroline Maynard]

I wouldn't be able to tell you specifically if we have a complaint or what our investigations are on. The other limitation we have is that we usually don't know who our requesters or complainants are unless they tell us. I'm not allowed to ask whether someone is a person from the Black community or somebody from a first nation.

Sometimes we see from the cases being looked into who we're dealing with, but it's really interesting when people are telling us and we are able to prioritize some of those cases, especially when there's an urgent need for the information. Unfortunately, as you can see, with 6,000 cases that we investigate every year—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have only a minute left. You did, I believe, reference in your opening remarks some particular struggles that first nations were having with getting information. Again, I would believe that in a fair, good-faith, nation-to-nation negotiation process as relates to land claims and as relates to other agreements, there would be an openness by this government.

Could you perhaps expand upon the ways in which first nations are particularly impacted by some of the barriers presented within this process?

[Caroline Maynard]

They're particularly impacted. Actually, I met with the director of national claims and research this week. They are using, most of the time, the informal process. If they don't get the information they want, then they have to go through the formal process to make a complaint to my office. It's those delays that are added to everything.

I was happy to see that Minister Miller was talking about providing more information and dealing with reconciliation and those claims that members of indigenous communities have. I'm hoping there's some light at the end of the tunnel on this.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.