Evidence of meeting #53 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aws.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
When you were receiving the initial version of the app, when you were developing on the application, building it with the purpose of collecting COVID-19 data, what type of work would have gone into it to improve it from its initial stage?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
We didn't build the app. We were involved in helping architect the security infrastructure that supports the app. The app itself also ran on our cloud infrastructure.
The specific type of work we did was really to help the Government of Canada implement its standards on cybersecurity and the integration of the ArriveCAN app with the rest of the CBSA and PHAC ecosystems. We enabled architectures in security that supported major new functionalities throughout the two and a half years since it was launched. That was related to—
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay. That will suffice. Thank you.
If you were to quantify the amount of data that was stored, how much data would have been stored for $4.29 million?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
I don't have that information in terms of the quantity of data stored. I know there was public information around the number of users who downloaded the app, but I don't have it in terms of a quantifiable amount of data.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Would that not have fallen to any reporting that would have happened internally with AWS?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
No—not reporting that I would normally see.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Ms. Foster, are you the correct person to be in front of this committee and answering these questions at this moment?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
That's really up to you.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Well, it's up to, I guess, the quality of the answers we get.
What I'm looking for is this: You didn't do any types of updates at all; you were simply hosting; and 20 or 30 people were involved in the project at any given time. Is that correct?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
I'm really not sure what you're asking. Can you clarify your question for me?
NDP
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
Were there 20 or 30 people involved in the project in terms of providing advisory services? That's correct, yes.
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
Within this specific use case, there were no data breaches.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
No. Within any use case, have you ever had breaches within AWS?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
Related to the AWS environment, no, we haven't, not that I'm aware of.
NDP
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
Related to the AWS cloud, no, we have not.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green.
We're now going to start the second round, and I'm going to return to Mr. Barrett.
You have five minutes, Mr. Barrett.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
To pick up a little from where Mr. Green was, I would be interested in more precision. I appreciate that you've undertaken to work with your client to provide global numbers with respect to all the work or possible work that was done on ArriveCAN, including professional services, contact centres and cloud computing. We can leave that there for now, I suppose.
What would the type of work be that would be completed at the contact centres that I've referenced on a project like this, if it were to have been used? You were unsure if it had been.
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
Again, I'm not sure that we worked with this particular customer on a contact centre.
We do provide contact centre solutions. We essentially provide the building blocks to stand up a virtual contact centre for customers. For example, we worked on other government projects that were related to contact centres, but I don't know specifically if we did one related to ArriveCAN.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
The type of information that would be available when you're billing your client would include all the details that would line up with the contract: your base costs, the time worked on the app. Would you include billable hours? Is that something that would be included?
Director, Global Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning, Canada Public Policy, Amazon Web Services, Inc.
I believe that the services are billed by week rather than by hour.
The way our advisory services work is that they are outcomes-based as opposed to designing some specific coding for a specific thing. There would be broader parameters in terms of requirements the customer would have. Then we would work to design our architect based on an outcome that is required as opposed to a specific part of the project, if that makes sense.
The benefit of that to the customer.... A lot of our customers may not have the full expertise and understanding of how to leverage those services effectively or efficiently. For example, security services may be of most value to them, in their context, to meet their governance standards. We would have a little more creative licence in driving that solution based on the experts we have within our company to produce those outcomes for the customer.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
We've discussed a suite of services that AWS is able to provide. In previous discussions or papers that have been released by the government, it's been noted that there were other options for the government to pursue—in terms of subcontractors or vendors—on this project. Is design something that's in the wheelhouse of Amazon? Does AWS have a design department? Is that a service you offer?