Evidence of meeting #57 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Fergus.
Minister, I have a question or two. At the time that the contract was initiated, were you posting your own material on your own social media platforms, or was one of your staff doing that?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Were any of the staff who were posting at that time with Ms. Alvaro actually part of the training session? You said earlier that it was you and Ms. Alvaro, one on one, for those series of hours. Were any of those staff on that training session with Ms. Alvaro? Who was the staff member?
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
The staff members who were with me at the time of the pandemic are no longer in my office now.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. Thank you, Minister Ng, for your time today.
We have our next witness available. We are going to suspend for a couple of minutes and then we'll be right back.
Thank you.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I want to welcome everyone back for the second hour.
I'd now like to welcome our guest for our second hour. We have Amanda Alvaro, who works in communications with the Pomp & Circumstance company.
Ms. Alvaro, you have five minutes before the committee. Please begin.
9:50 a.m.
Amanda Alvaro Communications Professional, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for inviting me here today.
I'd like to begin by providing some context. March 2020 was not a business-as-usual time. It was the onset of a global pandemic. It was, by any account, an extraordinary time. The deputy minister who spoke on this matter on Tuesday referred to the internal ministry operations at the time as “chaotic” and said that everyone who was involved was “inordinately busy”. Those were his words.
Minister Mary Ng was one a few ministers who were tasked with a major communications role at this time. Her mandate as the minister for small business meant that she had several serious announcements to make, and there was an intense urgency to get that information out as widely and expeditiously as possible. That was the catalyst for engaging our agency for professional communication support.
My friendship with Mary grew out of a professional relationship. We worked together, I in a communication role and she as a policy adviser. Because we knew each other first and primarily in these roles, she has from time to time sought my communications advice, and I have been happy to provide it. Giving counsel over the phone or over coffee in an ad hoc way is not the same as being asked for the requirements that the minister's office had in March 2020. The effort to undertake was ultimately to develop a communications plan that included media training, the production of social and digital media assets, a seven-minute video with cut-downs, media list development, media outreach, content calendar, coordination of media, podcasts and about six Instagram Lives.
To be very frank, when it became clear that Mary and her office needed more than just some advice, my partner and I initially did not want to take on the work, and, contrary to assertions that have been made, we didn't need it. To give you perspective, this work accounted for less than one half of one per cent of our annual revenue in 2020. It also came at a time when we were pressed internally with competing client needs and would be required to pull staff off of work to get the job done in a compressed timeline.
The reason we ultimately decided to do it was that, on reflection, we felt that it was the right thing to do. As small business owners ourselves, we knew how clearly frustrating it was to not be able to quickly find information and supports that businesses were desperate to access at that time.
The question will inevitably be raised as to why our office didn't call another firm to supplement the departmental work. I think, when you're faced with a crisis like none of us had ever seen, your natural instinct is to work with someone you know and respect, someone you trust and someone you believe will get the job done right the first time, which is what we did, on time and on budget.
In total, we produced 103 hours of work, including 56 products worked on by five people over 17 days. This represented extremely good value for dollar. It was excellent by any standard, and we are proud of the good work we delivered.
I think it's also important to note that we have complied with all of our obligations at every step of the way, as we always do. As you know, this matter has already been extensively reviewed by the Ethics Commissioner, who did not find fault with the work or the need for the work. The issue is centred exclusively on recusal.
The minister, in my opinion, made an unintended procedural mistake in failing to recuse herself, which she has acknowledged, and she has taken steps to ensure that it is not repeated.
Finally, I will take the liberty to say this. Mary is one of the most principled and hard-working public servants I have ever met or worked with. While her error was procedural in nature, I believe that it came with the highest of intentions: to do right by Canadian small business during an unprecedented time.
I'm happy to take your questions.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Ms. Alvaro.
We're going to start with our first round of questioning for six minutes and go directly to Mr. Barrett.
Go ahead, Mr. Barrett.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks, Chair.
Ma'am, thanks for joining us today.
Were you listening to the first panel, the first hour with Minister Ng?
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Were the dates that the minister reflected correct for the media training, the April 10 and May 3, 2020?
9:55 a.m.
Communications Professional, As an Individual
I believe that those are the correct dates.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Who were on those calls? The minister seemed unsure of who took part in those training sessions. Are you able to recall?
9:55 a.m.
Communications Professional, As an Individual
I took part in the training session. The minister took part in the training session. The video editor was part of those training sessions, and I believe a member of her communications staff was a part of those training sessions.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Do you recall how long the sessions were in their duration?
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Were they less than five hours long?
9:55 a.m.
Communications Professional, As an Individual
I think they were less than five hours long.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Do you have any current contracts with the Government of Canada—any Crown corporations, departments or agencies?
9:55 a.m.
Communications Professional, As an Individual
I do not and have not since 2020.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You made a point of mentioning the success of your business. Congratulations on your success.
In my questions to the minister, I spoke about the challenges that small businesses were facing and the perception that Canadians have about an occurrence like this. The judgment that the commissioner made was strictly with respect to the scope of his mandate, on the Conflict of Interest Act, and he deemed that the act was broken, that that law was broken.
Do you appreciate why some Canadians would be upset that a contract for tens of thousands of dollars was given to a close friend of a federal cabinet minister?
9:55 a.m.
Communications Professional, As an Individual
I think what I accept is that the Ethics Commissioner reviewed this matter thoroughly and did not find any faults with the work or with the need for the work. I think it was excellent work, I think it was necessary work, and I remain proud of the work.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I'm happy to hear that you are proud of it.
Do you understand why Canadians would be frustrated that a company that's making $5 million a year was given a contract for tens of thousands of dollars by a minister because they were friends?
9:55 a.m.
Communications Professional, As an Individual
As a small business owner myself, I understand the frustration of a lot of small business owners who were unable to access information at the time. It's difficult to go onto ministry websites to find press releases buried with the information that you need.
I think it was really important to be able to communicate simply and to use all of the channels available to the minister and the minister's office, including digital and social media channels, including the media, to get those important supports out that businesses were desperate to get to at that time.
