Evidence of meeting #59 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
As a member, I want clarity from you as the chair, sir.
My testimony isn't for the contemplation of the analysts. It's only the testimony of the witnesses. Is that correct?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Mr. Dalton used his time to make a statement, which he's entitled to do, as you know, Mr. Green.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I believe procedurally that is the case—that while you could make the statement and feel good—
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Just hang on a second. I do have to go to the clerk on this, because I'm unsure, Mr. Green. Thank you.
9:45 a.m.
The Clerk
Mr. Green, in answer to you, there will be discussions about what is going to go in the letter a little bit later today. It's going to be a discussion in camera. In the end, it's not the report of the analyst. The analyst will reflect what the committee wants to see in the report.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Chair, can I just leave the question, and they can submit the answer?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
I didn't realize that I'd have this right at the very end. Normally having a quick notification that I had 10 seconds would have allowed me at least to present the question.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
The members are allowed to use their time in relation or relevance to whatever they want. You used your time to make a statement. As the clerk said, we are going in camera afterwards to provide drafting instructions on a letter to the commissioner. This will not be a formal report presented to Parliament. We can discuss it at that point. Is that okay?
Thank you.
Next up, I have Mr. Bains for five minutes. Go ahead, Mr. Bains.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.
To go back on Mr. Dalton's questions there, I have a question for Mr. Larkin.
My colleague across the way read some quotes from Mario Dion. Mr. Larkin, which commissioner oversees the lobbying code?
9:45 a.m.
Treasurer, Public Affairs Association of Canada
That would be the Commissioner of Lobbying.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
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Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay, thank you for that.
I'm going to go back to Mr. Metatawabin.
Your association advocates for indigenous economic development by promoting aboriginal businesses with equitable access to capital and care, and has also registered a lobby, as you mentioned and explained previously today. How does your lobbying impact economic growth for indigenous people in Canada?
9:50 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
I started in 2016, and the first priority they gave me was access to capital. The first thing I did was retain a consultant, and Isabel Metcalfe has been helping us since the beginning. We were the best-kept secret for the government. An investment of $240 million made 35 years ago has been recycled 15 times to $3.3 billion in lending to indigenous people across Canada
We are essentially the indigenous version of the Business Development Bank of Canada. Our lobbying efforts brought us into rooms and allowed me to tell the story of the network, which enabled us to create and launch an indigenous growth fund that is an institutional-grade investment tool that allows the private sector to invest in our community. We are able to lend that to our members who, in turn, lend that to the community in business loans. It is providing more loan portfolio for our members to provide larger loans, whereas they had maintained the same level of loan for 35 years. Now this allows them to move at the speed of business and to the size of business.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
That's the economic impact on the growth for indigenous people. What other types of lobbying activities do you find to be the most beneficial?
9:50 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association
I like to maintain a diverse lobbying effort. I like to update the government officials to make sure that they know what's going on in the indigenous community, in economic development in general and on the reconciliation front.
Right now, the government has a 5% procurement target. They had that 20 years ago, but it got nowhere because there were no consequences for a manager who didn't make a decision to choose an indigenous business as opposed to a business they knew, so no changes ever actually happened.
To Mr. Dalton's question, unless there are consequences and an impact on compensation and jail time...Singapore puts officials in jail if they undertake any breaches. We have to take it seriously when people think they can go above what the rules set. Impacting compensation, I think, would ensure that everybody doesn't breach.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you.
Going back to Mr. Larkin, a previous witness told the committee that reducing the cooling-off period for political work to 24 months would usher in a wave of pay-to-play U.S.-style politics and corruption.
What do you think of the commissioner's decision?
9:50 a.m.
Treasurer, Public Affairs Association of Canada
That's just not the truth. There are specific rules and laws that exist in Canada that don't exist in the U.S. The main one I would point out is PACs. PACs don't exist in Canada.
Money and politics don't exist the same way they do in the U.S. For us to go to U.S.-style lobbying through the code of conduct is just not possible. The proposed new code of conduct would not introduce anything like that.
Instead, the 24-month ban on lobbying activities after holding a senior role in a campaign is based on international standards. It would still hold the transparency and accountability that the law and the code go for.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
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Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Go very quickly, Mr. Bains. You are basically at your time right now, so I'll give you a quick question and quick answer.