Information & Ethics Committee on March 7th, 2023

[Caroline Maynard]

As I said earlier, the report provides a very good description of all the issues, as well as some potential solutions, but it doesn't really make any recommendations on how to address the issues or say how the government plans to address them.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

You have a pretty good idea of the situation, but you have no proposed actions or funding earmarked for that, I imagine.

[Caroline Maynard]

Absolutely, the costs will need to be verified, as they are with any action plan. That said, the report does provide a very good description of the current situation in the system.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In your opinion, if there were three things we had to do first, what would they be?

[Caroline Maynard]

In my view, our government really needs a declassification program, and that would be easy to implement.

The Access to Information Act needs to be considered clause by clause and recommendations need to be made. That's not my role. You, the parliamentarians, have the role of legislator. You're the ones who can do that.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

You have the content, which is why we're asking for it.

[Caroline Maynard]

I have the expertise, I see what's not working and I put it in my report, along with recommendations, of course. You've also heard why it's not working from people who use the act. That's really the other step.

I would also say that we need a better system for managing information, training and staffing, to help analysts and access to information departments fully respond to requests.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

So you're recommending a declassification program, a review of the act, and better ways to train and coach the teams.

[Caroline Maynard]

It will take the resources to make it all happen.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Caroline Maynard]

It's been a pleasure.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

We're going to try this again.

You had spoken about comparing your department through the whole of government. Can you compare what staffing looks like within an access regime currently and what it would ideally look like to complete requests within a reasonable amount of time?

[Caroline Maynard]

Like anything, the staffing in government is complex, long and bureaucratic. There are a lot of steps, which is fine. I think what we need are pools. We have to keep those pools filled with candidates who are qualified and interested, so that it's easy for all the institutions to go into that pool to access staffing.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That seems very reasonable.

You described a situation where the author of an access request is told that there are no records regarding a specific action or decision made by an institution. I think this is pretty problematic.

Are there any particular institutions that report more than others that they don't have records regarding an action or decision?

[Caroline Maynard]

No, and we see that often in terms of what we call missing records. Usually the requesters will have evidence that there should be records or that the decision was made, or there's more to it. We do find often it's just because the unit was not tasked properly.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

There's no department that is more problematic in incidents than others.

[Caroline Maynard]

I can't tell you that I've seen it more in one than in another.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's fair.

I think this is an important question around public interest. Can you describe the impact of the Access to Information Act's not including a general public interest provision?

[Caroline Maynard]

It goes with the culture of secrecy. If it's out there in the introduction that public interest is important.... Right now it's only a factor in terms of discretionary decisions. It's proper and it's good to have it as a factor, but if it's there in the introduction, it means that it overrides. It adds to the value of access.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Are you aware of any examples of the six provinces where institutions are required to disclose information about the risk of significant harm to the health and safety of the public or the environment, and where such information is disclosed?

[Caroline Maynard]

I know that Ontario has it. I'm sure there are more, as you said. I remember hearing about Ontario having that specific provision.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, I will just note that we had an opportunity to actually expand our whistle-blower protections and have some more of this available, but unfortunately it didn't have the full support of the House.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Mr. Kurek, you are up for five minutes.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much.

It's been very enlightening. We've heard a host of...and I think a fair amount of agreement on the need for more action.

Commissioner, I'd ask for your observation. You're in a unique position to see where the problems are. Are there any observations that you could share with the committee about the most problematic departments? Are there any trends that you see within those departments?

Is there information that you could offer to the committee on that, and then possibly some solutions that we could bring forward in terms of recommendations to the government?