Evidence of meeting #60 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Caroline Maynard  Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

4:10 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

Everybody in the government needs to be better at management, for sure. What we see is that people don't have maximum capacity for emails anymore. Most institutions have these big inboxes that nobody takes care of, so when you are being asked for emails, you can produce tens of thousands of them. What we are saying is that you need to have proper management of information within those inboxes, so that one person keeps the emails, whether it's the recipient.... Usually it would be the person receiving the signature on something and properly documenting it.

We don't have access if we don't have documents. That's clear. You don't want to erase business value documents, but you can definitely get rid of the transitory ones, the personal emails, which we still see in inboxes. There is definitely some learning to be done there.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Lisa Hepfner Liberal Hamilton Mountain, ON

I only have 20 seconds left, so I'll leave it there for now.

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

Thank you, Ms. Hepfner.

Mr. Villemure, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Maynard, I'm going to pick up where I left off.

Do you feel there's a need for training in the various agencies and departments so people understand the very essence of access to information?

4:10 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

It's definitely needed. I've even offered my services in that regard, although the legislation that governs my role doesn't give me an educational mandate like the Privacy Commissioner's, for example. However, I feel that's part of a commissioner's job. We have a duty to inform people of their responsibilities. We also have to give them information on how they can help us and how we can help them.

That's the kind of briefing we do from my office. However, I'm not invited as often as I'd like to the institutions that need information.

Recently, I spoke to 5,000 Canada Revenue Agency employees. I believe it was very well received, especially among new public servants. Public servants who don't work in an access to information department and who have never dealt with access to information requests don't understand their role with respect to information. They don't always know what information is important to keep and how to manage it properly. At the same time, people need to understand why certain information is important to Canadians.

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Do you feel it's the Treasury Board's job to set up training like that or to force people to take it?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

I feel that in administering the law, it has a duty to do so. I know there are briefings, but I feel that only public servants who are interested in the subject sign up for them. My understanding is that it's not mandatory for new public servants.

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

I think you're onto something.

We spoke earlier about declassification, an issue on which we need to move forward.

In the little time we have left, would you have a concrete proposal to make about this?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

Actually, there are several methods and programs. As I said earlier, the United States and the United Kingdom already have programs in place. Canada could go and see exactly how it works in those two countries. Some experts in Canada have studied these programs and made recommendations. Much has already been written about this.

In my opinion, even declassifying records after 50 years would be a good start.

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Training and declassification are both under the Treasury Board's purview.

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

Both depend on the government.

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Okay.

Thank you very much.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Brassard

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I'm going to ask some questions in a rather rapid-fire way. I'm going to try to get you to answer them as quickly as you can, so I can get through and have on the record as many as possible.

You stated that the government has to invest in hiring qualified staff, develop ongoing training and acquire new technology. Have you received any explanation for why the government is hesitant to adequately fund the ATIP regime?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Why do you think they're hesitant to do so?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

I think it's a financial situation. Everybody's struggling. We're all asking for more money. Clearly this is not a priority.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Okay.

Can you describe why creating a statutory duty for public servants and senior staff to create a registry of key actions and decisions is necessary?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

It's necessary because we do not currently have it under the act. Access exists only if the record exists.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

In 2018 and 2019, extensions to consult accounted for 48% of all time extensions. Given that consultations with other institutions are not mandatory, do you believe that institutions may be using consultations as a method of delaying their responses to access requests?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

For some cases, I definitely do.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

In addition to imposing limits for responding to consultations, are there any other limitations to consultations that should be considered?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

I think there should be clearly set reasons as to why consultations should or should not be done.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Can you describe why it's important that agencies to which the government has outsourced the delivery of government programs and services should be subject to part 1 of the act?

4:15 p.m.

Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Caroline Maynard

These organizations are providing the public—Canadians—services on behalf of Canada. They're using public funds to provide those services. Canadians are asking for information about where the money's going and how the decisions are made. These institutions should be subject to the act.