Information & Ethics Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's great.

Thank you for being here with us today, Mr. Rosenberg.

How did this donation come to the foundation? You are managing the foundation, and all of a sudden, there is a Chinese donation.

[Morris Rosenberg]

I am going to try to explain it. As I said, it happened eight years ago now, so the documents I have received have jogged my memory. If I do that, I might take up all your speaking time.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Try to be brief.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Okay.

First, in the package of documents, there is a memo that was sent to me by Guy Lefebvre, at the Université de Montréal, shortly after I took office. He said he had spoken with Alexandre Trudeau, before I took office, about the possibility of a Chinese donor, and that they thought it would be a good idea to wait until I was there. He asked me whether I was available to attend a meeting in Montreal on September 23 and 25, because—

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

So the Université de Montréal approached you.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Yes.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay.

We will read the documents when we get to them.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Okay.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

Under your leadership, what were the connections between the foundation and China?

[Morris Rosenberg]

Apart from a committee being created, there wasn't much.

I have here the minutes of a meeting on September 24, at which I was present with Mr. Lefebvre, the two Chinese donors, and the representatives of the university and the foundation. They created a committee of three people—you can see their names—who met several times. I don't know how many times they did it.

That was where the connection between us, China and the Université de Montréal was. On that point, it is very important that I tell you what Mr. Lefebvre said.

He says here that the university wishes to develop a long-term relationship with the foundation. Mr. Zhang's position was that the $1-million donation would establish scholarships for students at the faculty of law at the Université de Montréal and eventually at other universities in Canada.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Were you receiving donations from other countries?

[Morris Rosenberg]

No.

However, I should say something about the article published in the National Post in 2016, which said that there had been a huge increase in foreign donations to the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation. At that time, I said that a majority of that money was coming from a foundation registered in Switzerland in the name of John McCall MacBain and his wife, who are Canadian. Mr. McCall MacBain is now the chancellor of McGill University.

I think there were a few other small donations—I'm not certain, but we didn't count the Chinese donation because the donor was a Canadian company.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

The donations by Mr. McCall MacBain were actually relatively large.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Yes, they were very large.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

It was almost $1 million.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Yes. I don't recall exactly, but it was much larger, more than the other donations.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Yes, it was $946,000.

What were the reasons why you were dismissed from the foundation?

[Morris Rosenberg]

I had accepted the position for a four-year term after a very long career in the federal government. After three years, I told Mr. McCall MacBain, in April 2017, that I didn't want to renew my contract. I gave him enough time to launch a process to find a successor for me.

So there was not an ounce of truth in the allusion made on Friday to my having been dismissed. I had a good relationship with Mr. McCall MacBain and the members of the board of directors; I had good performance evaluations and when I left the foundation I maintained a very good relationship with it.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

So you would say that the remarks made by Ms. Fournier about a departure that was stormy and forced and about managing a crisis that followed the departure of yourself and several members of the board of directors at the same time are false.

[Morris Rosenberg]

I can explain that.

Some elements are true, but it was not caused by a crisis. Some members of the board of directors had been there for a long time and wanted to do something else. Some of them told me they would be leaving at the same time as me.

There were problems with a few employees. We were sent someone to help us with that. In one case, we lost our communications director. Because I knew I would be leaving, I decided not to hire a new communications director and to leave it up to my successor to build their own team.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

So there was no crisis management after you left.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Certainly there were problems, but I wouldn't characterize the situation as being a crisis. They were the kinds of problems that arise in managing any organization.

In addition, we always adhered to the mandate and objectives of the foundation regarding scholarships, fellows, mentors, conferences, and so on.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay. I gather that you do not agree with Ms. Fournier on this subject.

[Morris Rosenberg]

Definitely not.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.