Information & Ethics Committee on May 2nd, 2023

[Morris Rosenberg]

No, we didn't.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's the first round of questioning.

We're next going to a five-minute round. It's the second round.

We are going to begin with Mr. Brock.

Go ahead, Mr. Brock. You have five minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Rosenberg, we've heard a number of issues. I just want to confirm one point with respect to Alexandre Trudeau.

Your evidence is, to the best of your recollection, without referring to any of the documentation you had before you, that Alexandre Trudeau was only instrumental in negotiating one contract for the Trudeau Foundation—yes or no?

[Morris Rosenberg]

To the best of my recollection, yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Following up on Mr. Green's last question to you, I'm not satisfied with your response that it was close to your departure.

That payment was due on July 1, pursuant to the contract. Is that correct?

[Morris Rosenberg]

I'd have to look at the contract, but I'll assume it was.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The first payment was in 2016. The second payment was in 2017. The third payment...?

[Morris Rosenberg]

I'd have to look at the contract to see.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

You also interviewed with Vassy Kapelos on CTV's Question Period some time ago. You were quoted as saying that if a situation existed today, in hindsight, looking at it from a 2023 perspective, not a 2016 perspective, you would not have accepted donations. You said, “I think there would have been a different decision made for sure.”

Do you stand by that statement?

[Morris Rosenberg]

Yes. As I said—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

You'd agree with me, being a DM of foreign affairs, that the very issue of foreign election interference was very much on the radar map in 2016, as it certainly is in 2023.

[Morris Rosenberg]

I would say it was only after the U.S. election.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I think you also appreciate, sir, that there have been a number of articles and a number of interviews given by a number of entities that have severely questioned your integrity and your character with respect to your handling of this particular donation, and your being instrumental in preparing the report sent to the Prime Minister.

The media is asking questions and questioning your integrity and ethics. Canadian politicians are asking the very same question. Canadians are asking that question. Chinese Canadians, particularly, are asking that question. Now we find out your former colleagues at the foundation are asking that question.

According to you, from all the evidence—

[Morris Rosenberg]

Which former colleagues?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm not going to specify that.

What I've heard so far from you today is, notwithstanding everything that is going on around the situation, you saw no red flags whatsoever with respect to this donation. Is that correct?

[Morris Rosenberg]

At the time, that is correct. We actually thought there was no pressure put on us and the money came with no strings attached. The idea of putting on conferences to do with China was very attractive.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, sir.

There were no strings attached and no direct effort to influence Justin Trudeau, the new Prime Minister of this country. You didn't see any red flags whatsoever.

[Morris Rosenberg]

I did not.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Is that right?

[Morris Rosenberg]

That's correct.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

In fact, you told Vassy you had “no reason to think there was anything untoward about [the donation]. These donations were for putting on conferences.”

Is that correct?

[Morris Rosenberg]

That's correct.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

This is notwithstanding that, at the time, you also knew there was a report from The Globe and Mail regarding a leaked CSIS source.

[Morris Rosenberg]

At the time, no.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The CSIS source intercepted a 2014 conversation between Mr. Zhang and an unnamed commercial attaché at one of China's consulates in Canada. They discussed the federal election that was expected to take place in 2015 and the possibility the Liberals would defeat Stephen Harper's Conservatives and form the next government. The diplomat told Mr. Zhang that Beijing would reimburse him for the entire amount of the donation to the Trudeau Foundation, according to the source.

I am gobsmacked beyond belief to listen to you, in the role as president and CEO and a former deputy minister of foreign affairs, suggesting you knew nothing about CSIS intercepting a very important call. You know CSIS reports to the government on any political interference whatsoever. You know that.