Evidence of meeting #71 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was privacy.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
In the 2023-24 departmental plan of the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, it is indicated that additional funds were allocated to your organization in the 2022-23 year but that your organization did not expect to be able to staff all vacant positions before the end of March 2023.
Were those positions filled by the end of the fiscal year?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
We're still missing one. It's in IT. We received that money to hire in IT and information management. There's one position we have yet to staff.
We're looking for an expert in the Java language, and I understand—I know nothing about IT—that this expertise is hard to find, so we are still working on that. However, we are hopeful that by the fall we'll have someone in place.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
When the new lobbying code comes into effect, will it apply to those who left prior to the new code taking effect or will they be grandfathered into the old system?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The code applies at the time that you lobby, so it would apply as of July 1 moving forward to those who have lobbied. Anything that happened prior would be subject to the old code. It's at the time of the lobbying activity, so it will be based on the circumstances of the time.
We are going to be issuing some information and guidance to make sure that lobbyists understand the transition properly.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
The new code takes effect in the fall, and they would then have a 24-month cooling-off period and not the compulsory four to five as before. Is that correct?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'm sorry; the code would be applicable as of July 1.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
What are the rules around lobbying after someone is no longer a public office holder?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
When a former designated public office holder leaves office, they cannot lobby for five years. There is a small gap if you work for a corporation, in that you can lobby up to 20% of your time. However, if that person is a senior official, it's complicated. They end up in the registry and then they are subject to the code, but unless you're on the registry of lobbyists, you're not subject to the code.
As another aspect, anyone who leaves public office is subject to a five-year restriction. If anyone ever decides to leave office, I encourage them to call my office to understand the rules, because they're complicated.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
What are the rules around accepting to work with someone you previously dealt with in your position as a public office holder?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Anyone who leaves office is prohibited from communicating with public office holders, so they simply can't communicate unless they fall into a category. Going to work with someone that you have dealt with before comes under the post-employment rules of my colleague's office, so if you don't mind, I will pass the baton.
Director, Communications, Outreach and Planning, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Thank you very much for that, Madam Bélanger.
The post-employment rules under the Conflict of Interest Act apply for a period of one year for reporting public office holders and for a period of two years for ministers. There are also a series of rules that apply for life to all public office holders.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Maybe I will stay with you on the last question.
Some of your provincial counterparts have a dual mandate, that of registrar of lobbying and of conflict of interest and ethics commissioner.
Would you see any benefits, financial or otherwise, in merging the two federal offices into one?
Director, Communications, Outreach and Planning, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think that would be a question that would be appropriate for a future commissioner to answer.
Conservative
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Bélanger, thank you for appearing before the committee once again.
We received a lot of correspondence recently and we studied the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct. Have we reached the point where we should consider reviewing the Lobbying Act?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, absolutely. We should've reviewed it in 2017, but we didn't. We should've reviewed it in 2022, but we didn't. Now, here we are in 2023, but I'm seeing no indication of it happening. And yet, it's high time to review the act.
The weaknesses in the code flow from the weaknesses in the act. There's a lot of lobbying that goes on that doesn't require registering and it's high time we address that problem. I'm here to help if ever you decide to review the act.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
That's an excellent avenue to consider. We might even call it the “McKinsey clause”.
What are the two main points on which a review of the act should focus?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The first should be the threshold that organizations and companies are subject to. Everyone remains under the threshold, and yet there's a lot of lobbying that can happen before reaching that threshold. Someone can do up to 32 hours of lobbying per month before having to register as a lobbyist. That's too much. I would take an opposite approach whereby lobbyists need to register by default unless some very specific and objective criteria aren't met.
The other thing we might consider changing involves the information that needs to be disclosed in the registry. There's room to supply details that would add a bit more context and information, especially in the monthly disclosures. For instance, we know which designated public officer holders attended a given meeting, but we have no idea which lobbyists were present. There are flaws, and it is high time that we correct them.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It was passed in 2008.
Bloc
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
None. The act has been reviewed, but no changes have been made.
