Information & Ethics Committee on June 20th, 2023

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

Unfortunately, again, there's a lot of information that comes from either the public or the media, which we take into consideration when we review a file. Therefore, I can't comment on how many requests we've had or anything like that. However, if there is information brought to our attention, we look into it.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

You have roughly a minute.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

Commissioner, I have all the same questions in 50 seconds.

No, I'm just joking.

Are you able to say how much correspondence, if any, you received on this matter from members of the public?

[Nancy Bélanger]

From the public, I've received none.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Are you able to speak to the timeline of when you were contacted by Mr. Bains, or whether you were contacted by Mr. Bains on this issue?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Mr. Bains has made public that he received clearance from our respective offices. On the exact date, I'm not sure, but it would have been sometime in April. I don't have it in front of me.

Of course, in my case, it's simply to ensure he understands the limitations of lobbying. Because the corporation he's working with is a corporation, it could be up to 20%, although he has made public that he does not intend to communicate with the federal government.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Also, he's the individual responsible for government affairs for the organization.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Barrett. I appreciate that.

Ms. Saks, I have you for six minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Through you to Commissioner Bélanger, thank you for joining us again. Thank you to Madam Robinson-Dalpé as well.

Commissioner Bélanger, you just said a moment ago to my colleague that Mr. Bains has been quite public about the fact that he reached out to both of your offices, as a matter of fact, proactively, to ensure the position with Rogers was compliant.

Was it in fact compliant with both of your offices? Give a simple yes or no.

[Nancy Bélanger]

It will be compliant as long as there is no communication with the federal government above and beyond the 20% he's entitled to, because those are the rules.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Yes, absolutely.

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

It's the same with our office. As long as he continues to comply with sections 33 and 34 of the act, he's in compliance.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

That's wonderful.

If I do a bit of math in terms of timelines—you both mentioned this in your opening statements—is he past the two-year cooling-off period that would enable him to pursue the role he's been offered?

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

Exactly. He's beyond the two years. Therefore, he can accept any employment.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Okay.

When we did our study on the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct, we learned that many political staff and former public office holders regularly move into industries afterwards, where their expertise in government can be utilized. We heard quite a bit about that. We had much discussion.

Would you agree that these types of moves are fairly regular in what you could call “the Ottawa bubble”, or across Canada? It does happen. We raised it in the study.

[Nancy Bélanger]

Yes, but I don't have numbers as to whether it happens often that people from Ottawa move into the private sector.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Based on those who inquire at both of your offices to check whether they're in compliance or not, would you say it's fairly regular?

[Nancy Bélanger]

For former designated public office holders in the last year, we've probably had communications with 200 and some people about their obligations. Whether or not they choose to work in organizations or corporations, or choose to do the 20% lobbying, that, I don't know.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Go ahead, Madam Robinson-Dalpé.

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

In our case, I can't comment on that.

However, I know there's an average of 300 and some reporting public office holders who leave office during a yearly period—

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It's not one or two.

[Nancy Bélanger]

It's not one or two.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

You could call that fairly regular year in and year out.

To both of you, do these individuals who check with you check regularly on their compliance? Are they in communication with you? Do you have any folks who come back to check in from time to time?

[Nancy Bélanger]

I would say so. Some people understand the....

The prohibition is five years of not communicating with federal officials, so they should just not lobby, except for those who work for corporations, who do have some wiggle room.

They will check as to what constitutes lobbying. If they're not sure, before they pick up a phone or decide to write a letter, they will sometimes call us, yes.