Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We can't do that, because the debate hasn't concluded. I apologize, Mr. Villemure, but it's procedure.

I'm going to give until 4:20 to work this out, and then we can have a discussion after that. I hope we go to the vote right afterwards and figure this out. Thank you.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, we're back from the suspension.

I think we could possibly come up with a solution to this, and that is, based on what Ms. Khalid had said, that the committee request to appear, for one hour per witness, (a) the RCMP commissioner, Mr. Duheme; (b) Mr. Frédéric Pincince, who is the staff sergeant; and (c) the former Privy Council clerk, Mr. Wernick.

It would be an assumption that Mr. Duheme and Mr. Pincince would come together for an hour, and then Mr. Wernick would come for an hour. That would effectively take one meeting.

If the committee deems that there is more that is required, any further witnesses, we can deal with that at that time. I'm hoping this will solve the standoff that we're in right now by at least having these witnesses appear before the committee, and that they appear for one hour per witness.

Mr. Villemure, go ahead.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd be satisfied if there were at least two meetings. However, I want to confirm the list of proposed witnesses.

I'd like Ms. Khalid to repeat the names of those witnesses.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Unfortunately, this has been a bit of a game. Although I have very clear notes as to what I would like to have amended, for some reason it has become a little more ambiguous as we're discussing it right now.

I am absolutely okay with Mario Dion and Konrad von Finckenstein.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's not the amendment that was proposed.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I'm sorry. Mr. Villemure just asked me which witnesses we would be okay with. I'm just answering his question. Is that okay?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Yes, go ahead.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

It would be Mr. Michael Duheme, Frédéric Pincince, and for the last one, the former PCO clerk, Mr. Wernick as the witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Villemure, is that acceptable?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

It is.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Two meetings would be absolutely great for me, if that's what Mr. Villemure is good with as well.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I would state “at least two”.

I'm leaving the door open, but that doesn't mean that there will be more than two.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

At least two meetings.... It stops it at two but the potential exists for more if the committee deems it.

Hang on a second, because there is some confusion here.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this. What we've come up with is that the committee will devote at least two meetings to this study. We agree with that. “That the committee request to appear, for one hour per witness”, do we agree with that? If I heard you right, that would include Mr. Dion; the current Ethics Commissioner, Mr. von Finckenstein; the RCMP commissioner; the staff sergeant; and the former clerk of the Privy Council, Mr. Wernick. Is that correct?

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's what we're dealing with.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Ms. Damoff, go ahead.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Do we need unanimous consent to withdraw Ms. Khalid's previous motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

We're just going to withdraw it. If this motion is correct and we're all in agreement, I don't think there's any need for further discussion on this.

Can we go to a vote, or do we have unanimous consent on this motion? What would you prefer?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'm very happy with unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Is everyone good with this?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

That motion passes. Are you clear on this, Madam Clerk?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

I am.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Mr. Barrett, you have the floor.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I have a motion that I would like to move. I'm going to provide it to the clerk for the benefit of our interpreters. I'm not sure if there's someone who can get it for them. It's very short, and I'll read it slowly.

I'll put it in the box. This is very old modern technology.