Evidence of meeting #10 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was brookfield.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Okay.
According to your analysis, or the analysis cited in your report, Brookfield's tax gap in just five years between 2017 to 2021 was over $6.5 billion. Is that right?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
That's correct, and that was based on research done by the Canadians for Tax Fairness and by some analysis from the Toronto Star as well.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
It would be fair to say that the extent of Brookfield's tax avoidance, taxes that it should have otherwise paid in Canada in just five years, was over $6.5 billion.
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
The tax gap is looking at the statutory rate and there are some legitimate reasons why companies pay below that, but that's an indication of a major underpayment of taxes that, in the spirit of the law, should have been paid in Canada to finance public services in Canada.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Yes, I'd say $6.5 billion is a lot of money. Would it be fair to say that Brookfield is Canada's largest tax dodger, among corporations?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
It has been labelled as such. If it's not the largest, it's clearly in the very top tier.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Your report cites 123 of Canada's “largest corporations” and “found that 'largest tax gap for 2017 to 2021'” was none other than “Brookfield”. Is that right?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
That's correct.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB
Okay, I will ask the witness if he can elaborate on why it is, in his submission, that a blind trust is not an appropriate mechanism.
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
It's because there's still the ability to profit from something in a blind trust. Even if you don't know the details of what's going on, you're benefiting from the actions that might be taken by somebody else on your behalf.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay, thank you Mr. Cooper and Mr. Ward.
Next, we're going to go to Ms. Church from the Liberal Party, for five minutes.
Go ahead, Ms. Church.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Ward, you started off your remarks by saying you're not an expert on Canada's Conflict of Interest Act. Is that correct?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
That is correct.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Do you know who is covered by Canada's Conflict of Interest Act?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
I'm assuming that it relates to public officials, but I have not read the act. I am an expert on tax havens and using various schemes to avoid tax.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
You would agree, then, that it doesn't cover corporations. That is not the intent of the act. The intent of the act is to cover public office holders.
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
I do not have the knowledge to respond to that adequately.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Let's talk about blind trusts, then, if you're not familiar with the act itself.
Are you aware that investments that are entered into a blind trust are fully disclosed before they're put into a blind trust by a public office holder?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
Am I aware that the investments are disclosed before entering into a blind trust?
Principal Analyst, Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research
Yes.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Just for the sake of transparency, those assets then are known. The public office holder then puts them into a blind trust so that from that point forward they no longer have control over those assets. Is that correct?