Evidence of meeting #2 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.
A video is available from Parliament.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Yes. They're respecting the act.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
There is something to be said for progress.
You launched an investigation into ArriveCAN over allegations related to the destruction of records that were subject to the act.
Is destroying or deleting records that are subject to access to information requests a breach of the act? Do your preliminary findings suggest that the law was broken in this case?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
With respect to ArriveCAN, I'm sorry, but I won't be able to talk to you about the investigation. It's still ongoing. This is a very complex investigation, as you just mentioned, including very serious allegations. It's part of our priority this year to finalize that investigation. I will be happy to report on that investigation later this year.
With respect to the allegation of destruction, it is a criminal act if it's intentional and if it's meant to remove the information so that somebody can't access it. I cannot tell you at this point what our findings are with respect to ArriveCAN.
September 15th, 2025 / 12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
In your 2024-25 report, you said that “nearly 30% of...requests” across government missed legislated timelines in the previous year. In plain terms, does missing the deadline on almost one-third of requests mean that the government, writ large, is failing to adhere to the law?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
It is.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
What do you think is the remedy that's needed?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Currently, the act is requiring institutions to respond within 30 days of an access request or to ask for an extension. For 33% of these requests, that timeline is not being met. There are all kinds of factors. Consultations with other institutions' taking way too long is one of them. Mismanagement of information, resulting in huge amounts of information having to be accessed and huge numbers of documents having to be processed, is another one. There's a lot that needs to be done to the system. As I said in my submission in 2020, a lot needs to be done to this act to modernize it. Reducing consultations to a certain amount of time would be one of the ways to reduce timelines, as well.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
I think you said the government's plan for modernization is not sufficient; I think those were your words. On the stick that might need to be used here, because I don't think there's any amount of carrots that would move the needle, what do peer countries do? What is the harshest or most effective measure that's used for compliance in other countries? Are we an outlier here? It seems extraordinary to have a government that seems to be flouting this very important law.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I've met with other colleagues from around the world, and unfortunately, we're not the only ones having issues implementing the act. Whether or not we have a good, or perfect, act, it's in the implementation that we can really see if a country is doing well.
Sanctioning public servants is not happening in any other country, because it's really difficult to know which person is ultimately responsible for the decisions.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
The buck stops with the minister at the end of the day.
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
That's what I think; I think the head of the institution should be responsible.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you, Commissioner.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Wonderful. Thank you, Commissioner.
Ms. Church, you have six minutes. Go ahead, please.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Commissioner.
I'm interested in getting a better sense of the lay of the land. Can you share your experience and characterize how the volume and maybe the size of the production has changed in the time that you followed access to information?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
One of the issues is that when the act was adopted in 1983, we were dealing with paper files, and it was easy to print what was really an official document and save it somewhere. Now we're dealing with a digital world in which people are using emails to make decisions, and people are using texts, Teams and videos.
I don't think that the act was meant for this amount of information, and basically, people have been negligent in managing their information. There are a lot of institutions that don't have a maximum size of inbox, so people can keep everything and they don't have to clean up, which is ridiculous. There are files that we see where somebody is looking for relevant information in 30,000 pages of documents. This is really not responding to the needs, like I said earlier, and we need to find a way to make public servants more responsible for managing their information. Maybe we need to use artificial intelligence to remove duplicates. There are all kinds of technology out there, but right now they're not being used, and we are seeing files that are not reasonable in size in terms of requests.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
You mentioned the designation of an official document or an official record. Can you describe what that encompasses?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
The act refers to “any record”, so if a document is not removed from your inbox and there's an access request, you have to provide that document; it's part of the record.
The policy under the Treasury Board of Canada is that you can remove transitory documents, and you should keep documents that have business value. That's really dependent on different decisions; some people will keep all the drafts that led to a decision, especially if they show the way the decision was made.
It's really a case-by-case situation, but right now I think a lot of people are keeping everything just to make sure that they don't...you know, where there should be better policies and better directives, or maybe a legislative definition of an official document, so that people know what they're supposed to do and what their responsibilities are.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
People are keeping more than they ought to out of a heightened concern around compliance. Is that what you're saying?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
Sometimes, yes, and you also have allegations that people are not keeping enough. We do have some cases where a decision is made and you have difficulties understanding why documents have not been created for those decisions, and that's also concerning.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
You raised the point about technology, and that's obviously part of the challenge here, just with the number of platforms and the types of technology we're using for information storage for basic communications in government. What do you think are some of the ways that a government could better use technology to improve information management or access to information?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I'm not an expert, but I am sure there are ways to integrate artificial intelligence or technologies that will identify relevant information instead of every record that deals with one word.
We had an example in my office. Somebody asked for one word, and pretty much all the documents we created had that one word. You cannot process that. We have to find ways to work with technology to remove duplications. We have to find ways to better manage that information. That's not my expertise, but I'm sure that the government should definitely hire more IT specialists to determine those. There are some countries that have already implemented some of those technologies. We should be looking at the best practices out there.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Are there countries you would point us to right now for those best practices on advanced technology solutions?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I know that Australia is one of the countries that is using AI a lot more than I've heard from other places. Yes, that's the first country that comes to mind.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
You also raised the objective of combatting misinformation and disinformation. Can you speak a bit to that and to how you see the access to information regime helping us address that issue?
Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada
I always say that the access request that doesn't need to be made is the best access request, because if the information is out there, if the information is reliable, if there's a policy on proactive disclosure.... Canadians need to know that they can rely on the information they're reading and accessing, that information they obtain, whether it's through journalists or through their member of Parliament, but right now, if it's difficult to obtain even the reliable information from the government, where should they turn? Where are they going to turn? That's where misinformation comes....
We are doing such a great job. The public service is providing advice based on facts and statistics, and that information should be out there. We shouldn't have to respond, to ask for it.