Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbying.
A video is available from Parliament.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
There's only one thing I would caution. Of course I think you should speak to the community of those who are regulated by me, but I am not going to suggest particular lobbyists, etc.—
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
—because I don't think it would be fair, etc. Can I suggest anyone else? Yes, absolutely.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
You mentioned the RCMP, B.C. and Quebec. You mentioned Ontario, as well.
In addition to what you've mentioned, if there's anything else you can consider that would be helpful for the committee, I would appreciate it.
Conservative
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Bélanger, everyone seems to fully agree that we have to move forward and that we're a little ways from 2012. That's a good thing.
The Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner has to regulate public office holders, such as us, while you regulate lobbyists. How well do you get along? Do you have a good balance of power? When an elected official starts doing business with lobbyists, isn't it the Ethics Commissioner who should slap the official on the wrist to tell them that they're crossing a line or making someone else cross it?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'm not sure I fully understand the second scenario.
I certainly have a very good relationship with the Ethics Commissioner. I would even add that, when I was appointed, Mr. Dion and I signed an agreement to do training together. That said, my office isn't a reflection of the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. That office regulates each of you, while the lobbyists I supervise interact not only with you, but also with public servants and senators. The two offices don't exactly mirror each other.
When someone leaves office, they're currently told to be careful because they won't have the right to lobby for the next five years, and they're told to make sure to communicate with the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying.
We have a very good relationship, especially when it comes to training, where we try to work together.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
Last week, we heard from experts who told us that the trust set up to manage the Prime Minister's assets and avoid any ethical problems was just a smokescreen. Do you agree with that? Do you think it is enough to hire two people so that no lobbyist can have influence on the other side?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I'm not sure I should comment on that, because it's really outside of my purview. I regulate lobbyists. However, I can tell you that when a lobbyist becomes a public office holder, which happens regularly, we recommend that the people working with that person don't lobby them or their entourage for a certain amount of time.
Conservative
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
It's a recommendation, but if they don't follow it, that's a violation of the code of ethics, and I have to report it to Parliament. I haven't had an issue so far.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you.
Mr. Sari, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Liberal
Abdelhaq Sari Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner Bélanger, once again, thank you for your answers.
A number of people were elected for the first time in April 2025, and I'm one of them. This is the first time I've been elected at the federal level, and having worked at the municipal level for eight years, I can tell you that I felt like I was coming out of a municipal pool to face a federal ocean.
There is always talk about lobbyists, and what is or isn't respected, so I'm wondering if you have any advice for members like me. When you come from a municipal background, you're used to being a target, since you have quite significant prerogatives, but I feel that we're even bigger targets as federal elected officials. I think other new members are feeling that too. Maybe they've also come from another level of government.
What ethics-related advice would you give to members like me? We received some training that aligned with what we knew, but what advice would you give to new elected officials who are targets?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
First, when you meet with people who may be lobbyists, you have to ask them to contact my office. I would also advise you to consult our registry every time you meet with them. It's excellent. Go and see who they communicated with before meeting you.
Finally, take notes. Please document your meetings with these people, because if they aren't registered and I conduct an investigation, I will definitely be knocking on your door for information, and I'd like to have as many details as possible. For that reason, I recommend that you document your communications with these people.
Liberal
Abdelhaq Sari Liberal Bourassa, QC
Where is the line between lobbyists and influential people who can influence our decisions? Are they required to register? Do we always have to redirect them to you and ask your opinion before we meet with them?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
You don't have to do that before you meet with them. You can meet with them. It's not up to you to make sure that the people you meet are registered. That's my responsibility.
However, if they aren't registered, I would ask you to help me. Tell them that they're lobbying on a bill or a policy, for example, and encourage them to contact my office. If it's an organization that meets with you only once, it doesn't meet the current 32‑hour threshold. In January, though, that threshold will be reduced to eight hours, so it could meet the threshold from that point on. It would then have to reach out to us.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Sari.
Ms. Bélanger, I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us today. The information you've provided has been valuable. I appreciate the work that you and your staff are doing to keep everything on track. Once we get to the study, I'm sure you'll provide some valuable input.
Seeing no other business....
Ms. Church.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Mr. Chair, you had made a request to the commissioner for data on the number of lobbyists dating back to 2015. Can we get that dating back to 2008, when the act was created? Would she be amenable to that?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I think that's possible. In fact, I think some of it is already in our annual report, so it will not be hard work to get that done.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
I don't think that was a point of order, but there's no problem with that.
If you can do that, Nancy, I'd appreciate it.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Is within a week okay?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Yes. I know that your office is very quick in responding. Thank you.
That's it for today. Thank you to everyone who made this meeting possible.
The meeting is adjourned.