Yes.
Evidence of meeting #8 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rules.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #8 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rules.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Shuv Majumdar Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
If Mr. Carney makes policy decisions that affect his own undisclosed investments, there's technically no enforceable consequence. Is that fair?
Lawyer, As an Individual
That is correct. There's also a requirement to disclose the recusals under section 25, but that's correct: There are no penalties for not doing either.
Conservative
Shuv Majumdar Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
But there are incentives for the decisions he might make.
Mr. Carney can control the country's economic agenda while personally benefiting to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. Canadians may not even know about what kind of benefit he's deriving from the decisions he's making.
Lawyer, As an Individual
I'm not aware of some of those facts, but it is true that these things are known only to public office holders and the commissioner, except for what is disclosed in the public registry.
Conservative
Shuv Majumdar Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
Would you agree that this loophole allows the appearance, if not the reality—but perhaps the reality—of serious conflicts of interest for the Prime Minister, as it's established today?
Lawyer, As an Individual
I'm not sure which loophole the member is referring to. I think there are many.
Conservative
Lawyer, As an Individual
The absence of penalties is one of them, obviously. That's the largest one. The fact that divestment is defined to include non-divestment is another.
The reality is the commissioner knows more than we know. The way the act should work is the commissioner and the reporting public office holder should have equal knowledge of what is going on. The commissioner should be there and has the power to initiate, without even a complaint, wherever the problem lies.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Giorno and Mr. Majumdar.
Ms. Lapointe and Mrs. Church, you're sharing your time.
Ms. Church, go ahead. You have five minutes.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to pick up on that.
Mr. Giorno, is a public office holder restricted in the instructions they may provide to a trustee in a blind trust?
Lawyer, As an Individual
Yes, but there are restrictions. General guidance can be given, but not specific restrictions related to the act of managing the trust. It's going to be blind.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
What would be the purpose of limiting the public office holder's ability to issue instructions?
Lawyer, As an Individual
The purpose would be to ensure that the trust is blind and that there's a separation between what's happening inside the trust and what the reporting public office holder is aware of.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Is the trustee under any obligation to accept guidance from a public office holder?
Lawyer, As an Individual
It's quite the contrary. The trustee can't accept guidance. As was said, with the trust instrument, the act provides what it's to say, and the commissioner will not approve an instrument setting up the trust if it doesn't provide for the proper separation between the reporting public office holder and the trustee.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
What, if any, constraints exist on the information provided to a public office holder about the composition or the performance of any assets in a blind trust?
Lawyer, As an Individual
The only things the reporting public office holder who has assets in a blind trust is entitled to receive are reports on the total valuation. There's also a section of the act about any other information that's needed for legal requirements. That would be anything the public office holder may have to file. The trustee is able to tell the RPOH that. That's it.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
Once a blind trust is established or is in the process of being established, if I understand you correctly, the person establishing that blind trust has almost no ability to provide instructions to the trustee on how that trust should be managed, and, in fact, the commissioner would step in if such instruction was given.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
A trustee is actually bound not to accept guidance on the composition of the trust once it's established. They have an obligation to maintain the trust independently, blindly. There are strict constraints limiting any information on the performance and composition of the trust once it's operational.
Lawyer, As an Individual
Yes, all of those things are correct. The trustee can't be a brother-in-law or a sister-in-law. It has to be somebody who's in the business of doing this—a financial institution or an individual who manages assets for a living. The commissioner will also have a say on that.