Evidence of meeting #24 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was education.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe-Olivier Giroux  President, Quebec Federation of University Students, National Council for Graduate Studies
David Flewelling  President, Canadian Automobile Association
Colin McMillan  President, Canadian Medical Association
Eliot A. Phillipson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Foundation for Innovation
Roland Andersson  Chair, Canadian Consortium for Research
Wai Young  Executive Director, Canadian Immigrant Settlement Sector Alliance (CISSA)
William Tholl  Secretary General and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Medical Association
Nancy Maloley  Treasurer, Makivik Corporation
Adamie Alaku  Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation
William A. Shaw  President, Northern Alberta Institute of Technology
Sharon Maloney  Executive Director, Polytechnics Canada
James Turk  Executive Director, Canadian Association of University Teachers
Claire Morris  President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Universities and Colleges of Canada
Tracy Ross  Executive Director, Canadian Association of Science Centres
Eileen Klinkig  Construction Division, Special Projects Manager, Makivik Corporation

4:10 p.m.

President, Quebec Federation of University Students, National Council for Graduate Studies

Philippe-Olivier Giroux

The 65 per cent figure in relation to the indirect costs of research was set by an interministerial committee of the Government of Quebec composed of representatives of the Ministry of Education, Recreation and Sport, the Ministry of Economic Development, Innovation and Exports, and the Ministry of Health and Social Services. The amount was calculated based on practices in the United States and data provided by the Ministry with respect to current infrastructure maintenance costs.

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

Could you pass that information on to the Clerk?

4:10 p.m.

President, Quebec Federation of University Students, National Council for Graduate Studies

Philippe-Olivier Giroux

I could give you the reference.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Our next speaker will be Ms. Ablonczy.

You have five minutes, madam.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I appreciated the presentations. What I really appreciated was that you actually stuck to the theme we had hoped to address more substantively in these consultations: global competitiveness. No matter how well one sector or another does in Canada, as sort of a sum zero game, unless it feeds into a bigger place for Canada, a more successful place for Canada in the global marketplace, then we've missed something important. You've all seen this.

I want to start with the immigration settlement presentation, because that's a particular interest of mine. I worked in that area for a long time and really enjoyed it.

We reversed the freezing of settlement funds that had been in place for quite a number of years and increased it by over $300 million. We also cut the right of landing fee in half, initially. We intend to reduce it even more as time goes on. First of all, I wonder if you can tell us what impact that might have had. Secondly, what would be your next priority in the area of settlement if you could move to substantively address one area more effectively than you can now?

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Immigrant Settlement Sector Alliance (CISSA)

Wai Young

Thank you for the questions.

Indeed, when the government announced new funding for the sector, we were very grateful. We actually issued a news release saying that it was a great first step in addressing the needs within the sector.

To answer your question specifically, the reduction in immigration application landing fees was of course very substantive in attracting and retaining immigrants, which is the true goal of building a competitive economy. That was substantive in that those fees were cut on an individual basis. I don't know if Canadians have a sense of that. When you are a family of five and you are going from paying a fee of perhaps $8,000 to $4,000, that is quite substantive when you have the cost of moving to a new country and starting out again, etc. I say thank you to this government. However, as we have noted in all these reports, certainly more help in the attraction and retention of a new workforce and a new population is critical.

In terms of setting new priorities for the 2007 fiscal year and beyond, we are very aware of how fragile our sector is, because of the frozen state of the funding in the decade prior to the new funds we just received. The infrastructure within the system is at a critical point, to be quite frank. We have caseloads where things are unbelievable. I think you have all heard the stories of what is happening currently in what we call CTV--Calgary, Toronto, and Vancouver.

There are outstanding issues. I just returned from a conference in the Atlantic region, and they are in a different situation. They are so quickly losing population that they're quite anxious to look at ways that we can help to increase their population in the smaller centres.

I would say that our number one priority is to work with our partners--the government, the universities, research, etc.--to come up with a larger framework, because right now we're all working in different silos to address this population need.

Second, there are many things that historically have not been addressed within the sector. We already talked about infrastructure; the settlement workers' caseloads are incredibly high. There is an amazing amount of needs, both in terms of immigrants and refugees. I don't want to get into the specifics of that, but what I do want to say is that in addition to developing a framework, we as a sector, and the department itself, do not have a set of outcomes. For example, we do not know how much it costs to settle an immigrant, so how does one do funding formulas, look at comparable services across Canada, set national standards for service delivery, or any of those things? Looking at outcomes is one project that we are definitely interested in. Establishing those outcomes would give us a very good gauge to look at things such as productivity within the settlement sector.

We are looking very seriously at the professionalization of the settlement workers right now. Historically it has been sort of a “let's go and help these people” type of thing, but with the labour market needs, it has gradually become an increasingly skilled and specialized sector. These are macro projects that require a window of three to five years of study and development.

Those are the kinds of things we would be interested in.

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Thank you.

We have to move on now to Madam Wasylycia-Leis.

You have five minutes, Madam.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

First, I was really struck by the similarity between the consortium's paper on research and post-secondary education and the Conseil national des cycles supérieurs. Is there anything that you two disagree on? You both said there should be a significant increase in transfers for education to provinces. You say there should be investment in research. You both identify the importance of this as building a competitive society. It is very important to have two diverse groups in solid agreement. I just want to check to see if you do agree and why you would feel this way.

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Consortium for Research

Roland Andersson

First of all, I agree. Secondly, I have never seen his report. The first I heard of it was today, as he was making his presentation. It shows the consistency across the country, when you hear from various groups. You get reinforcing messages. You can start to filter through what's important and what's not.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

I understand that you are actually from the Chemical Institute.

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Consortium for Research

Roland Andersson

That's right.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Isn't that a group of producers, corporate people, and business people?

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Consortium for Research

Roland Andersson

Not quite. The Chemical Institute of Canada is a technical professional association of chemists, chemical engineers, and chemical technologists employed in industry, academia, and government.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

I was just going to ask how come you seem to get it and so many others from the corporate world don't put the necessary emphasis on investing in education?

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Consortium for Research

Roland Andersson

I can speak to that directly. I worked in a chemical industry for approximately 20 years. When globalization hit in 1990, I saw companies like Ashland Chemical pull 30 researchers out of Canada and put them down in the States, where their head office is.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Chairperson, I hope you heard that. That was an important point.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

I'm excited to hear more questions.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

To the conseil, you've identified the need for a $4.9 billion transfer. It seems reasonable. I wondered how you calculated that, and whether you think that, instead of putting all $13 billion against the debt, maybe we could have put some towards education.

4:20 p.m.

President, Quebec Federation of University Students, National Council for Graduate Studies

Philippe-Olivier Giroux

Let me quickly explain how we made that calculation.

In the mid-1990s, the post-secondary education transfer was cut by $2.2 billion. We are asking for that money to be returned and that cost inflation and increased student enrollments in the universities be included, for a total of $4.9 billion.

Following the cuts made in the 1990s, there was a direct impact on universities' core funding, and at the present time, that is a huge problem for Canadian universities. Considering that the Council represents graduate students engaged in research and that the members of the consortium are university and professional researchers, it is perfectly natural that we would be providing you with the same feedback in terms of what is going on in the universities and research laboratories. That is where the real need is.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Thank you. I really appreciate your answer.

Now I'll turn to the Canadian Medical Association. I want to know who you consulted on the whole announcement yesterday on the budget cuts and the allocation of the debt. There's a significant amount of money being cut out of health research and other miscellaneous expenditures. Were you consulted? Will you be consulted?

Dr. Tholl, yesterday you were at a committee that got the strange question from a Conservative member of what you think about deregulating physician services. For the life of me, I don't know why this is coming out of the Conservatives now and where it's going, but I would like you to address that.

4:20 p.m.

Secretary General and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Medical Association

Dr. William Tholl

No, we were not consulted on the cuts that were announced yesterday. We would be interested in hearing the rationale behind some of the cuts and what could be done to address some serious issues in alternative ways, if in fact the ways that were being announced weren't exactly the right ways.

As for deregulation, it was a bit of a confused question. If by deregulation we mean deregulating the professions, we're against that. We think it's important to maintain the quality of care throughout the health professions, beginning with doctors. As for deregulating the market for physician services, we already indicated that we're living in a global environment for physicians. It was mentioned that we're starting to see a back-flow of highly qualified personnel, as Dr. Phillipson indicated. For the first time in 30 years, we actually saw a net balance of trade surplus in physicians last year vis-à-vis the United States, with 55 net physicians coming into Canada. We already think we're in a global market for physician services. Canadian doctors are respected, and their credentials are acknowledged throughout the world.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Mr. McCallum.

September 27th, 2006 / 4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

First of all, Mr. Phillipson, I think I'm correct in saying that CFI is going to run out of money soon and won't be able to make new commitments. Can you confirm if that's correct and tell us when?

4:25 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Foundation for Innovation

Dr. Eliot A. Phillipson

That is correct.

We have a competition currently. Once approved by our board, the results will be announced in November. Thereafter, apart from $440 million in the research hospital fund, which is dedicated specifically to research hospitals, we will in a sense have largely committed all of our available funds and will not be able to mount another competition.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you.

Mr. McMillan, I totally agree with you that wait times should be a key priority. The government also agrees in the sense that it was one of its top five priorities, but there was no money allocated to it.

My question to you is, what has to be done? Can anything be done about wait times without the federal government allocating more money?