Finance Committee on Oct. 16th, 2006

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I guess the last question I'll ask, and I'll be quick because I don't have much time left, is around the whole concept of national marketing initiatives to support more domestic consumption. I wonder if you could elaborate on that a little bit, and of course come back to the return on investment. I also understand that the industry has done a marketing survey about where you need to go or where you are.

[Debbie Zimmerman]

I think one of the most important elements of our industry is that we have a very small land base in Ontario, yet we grow the highest-quality grapes there are, and we can compete on a world stage. We also understand our industry. Knowing that we grow in a cool climate.... Unfortunately, I think a lot of people don't understand that, but if you really take a look around the world, it's very difficult to grow the kinds of grapes we're growing in Ontario. We recognize that we need to transition, but one of the ways we're doing that is that we're prepared to sit down with our industry to craft an industry strategy that will help us go forward with the right marketing for the future.

The LCBO is the main distributor of our product.

[The Chair, Conservative, Brian Pallister]

Thank you.

We have to move on now to Mr. Pacetti. You have five minutes, sir.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the presenters. It's always a challenge for us to ask the right questions in the little bit of time we have.

Mr. Szmurlo, in terms of Enbridge, when I think of Enbridge I think about natural gas and crude. I think you mentioned that you're also involved in crude. But what's the interest in clean energy? What's the link between clean energy and Enbridge?

[Chuck Szmurlo]

Number one, our CEO feels that it's important that energy industries be proactive environmentally and that they do their share, that they be responsible for their share of emissions.

Secondly, I think it is the opportunity for profitable growth. Wind power is a very rapidly growing source of electricity in the company, and it's long term, just as pipelines are long term. When it's supported by long-term contracts, it has a risk profile similar to other energy infrastructure such as pipelines and gas distribution.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Not to interrupt, because we have limited time, but do you have any investments in clean energy and wind power?

[Chuck Szmurlo]

Yes, we do. We have four wind power projects. We are doing the first project in Saskatchewan, we have two projects in Alberta, and we are currently constructing a 200-megawatt project in Ontario.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

When you talk about your natural gas business, how is that in terms of clean technology? Are you up to date with all the new technology? We were in Fort McMurray--the committee was there--and we saw some of the things going on there. We were at one of the plants, but I think the plant we were at had the newer technology, whereas one of the other plants had the older technology and therefore had higher emissions. I think there were problems there.

[Chuck Szmurlo]

We're really proud of the advancements we've made in cleaning up our natural gas distribution utility. That's where we've had a lot of our emissions gains, from replacing the old cast iron system that existed in Ontario for more than a hundred years.

We're also working on new gas-fired power generation technology, specifically the fuel cells.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Is there money being invested in the current technology used to extract or distribute the natural gas?

[Chuck Szmurlo]

We're not involved in the extraction of natural gas. We are a transportation and distribution company, so we don't get involved in that. But we certainly invest funds in the clean distribution of natural gas.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Ms. Lemay, you asked earlier that all levels of government get together to provide long-term financial assistance for future programs. Are provincial and municipal governments interested in making long-term investments?

[Marie Lemay]

In recent years, I believe we have received signals from representatives of all levels of government.

As regards a national round table, that I talked about earlier, we have already brought together at the same table representatives of the federal, provincial and municipal governments, as well as representatives of industry and the First Nations. We have had two meetings so far, and a third one is planned. Being at the federal level, you already have an idea of how difficult it is to get this kind of project off the ground. But there is definitely interest there.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

But is there a long-term vision?

[Marie Lemay]

That's a very good question. In my opinion, that is where the federal government could play a very significant role.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Are other levels of government prepared to work together to invest in this kind of project over a 10- or 15 year period?

[Marie Lemay]

At the present time, I can only tell you that at every meeting we have attended, representatives of all government levels showed an interest.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

My question is really intended to determine whether they're interested in these projects lasting for 15 or 20 years? I know that the Government of Quebec has invested money in the subway system, but it seems that other investments will be for a term of 10 to 15 years. So, there are more problems.

[Marie Lemay]

There is definitely a change in attitude as regards infrastructure. We are moving from the old way of thinking to the new.

Let me give you an example...

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So, we're not there yet. I don't want to interrupt you...

[Marie Lemay]

No, we definitely are not there yet. And we will be there the day that you don't have to ask me whether maintenance costs are included in infrastructure costs. Infrastructure costs will be a reflex. But we are not there yet; we are getting there.

[Claude Paul Boivin]

I could perhaps add that the Federation of Canadian Municipalities has voiced support for long-term solutions.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes. Perfect, thank you.

[Marie Lemay]

I would just like to add one comment. Let's take an example. If you buy a house and you intend to keep it for three years, the decisions you make will be very different from the ones you would make if you were expecting to keep it for 30 years.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Exactly. I agree with you.