Evidence of meeting #44 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister
Thank you very much.
On that gift from the Liberal surplus, which number were we using for that surplus, Mr. Savage, the first predicted number, or the second, or the third?
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
October 26th, 2006 / 9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairperson. I'm going to start with a bit of a lengthy preamble, because I feel I need to get a couple of comments on the record.
First of all, I feel child care is somewhat different from day care or even babysitting. I think child care is everything that goes into the care of a child, which includes providing shelter, providing clothing, and providing guardianship and stewardship through the day. So to say this doesn't help with what is effectively day care...I don't believe that's saying it's not a child care benefit.
I also don't like how we're so willing to discriminate against certain members of society: those who would not use a day care centre. I think we need to be cognizant of the fact that this system was discriminatory. I might have children and I might not get a subsidized space, but my neighbour might, yet we pay the same taxes. I think that's a discriminatory system and I think that's wrong.
Mr. Polanyi, here's just a comment. You talked about putting heads together and talking. In my personal opinion, focus groups are terrible. I can sit in on a focus group with 25 people, and by the end of the focus group I can have most of them talking in exactly the same language that I'm talking in just because I happen to be the type of person who will fight for my point. I've sat in on focus groups for auto companies and discussed what people want in a car, and by the end of it they all come out saying that what I think is good in a car is what they want. Quite frankly, focus groups are terribly unreliable.
McDonald's goes into focus groups and everybody comes out saying people want salads and muffins, and then their sales go down. Do you know why? When people go to McDonald's they want fries and hamburgers. That's the truth of it. They don't go there for health food.
9:55 a.m.
Coordinator, Canadian Social Development Program, KAIROS (Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives)
Do you want me to reply to that?
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
No, I didn't ask a question.
Ms. Ablett, what percentage of people who work in day care centres would be women versus men, approximately?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care
I can check on the statistics, but I think one statistic that I saw said it was 90%, and there may also be up to 98% women working in child care.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care
I can check that out for you.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
I'll tell you that my wife makes about $12.50 an hour.
10 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care
It really ranges across the country, I'd have to say. It's anywhere from minimum wage to upwards of $15. The wage levels are quite inequitable.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Let's use $15 an hour, 40 hours a week. That's $31,200. That's significantly less than the average personal income. Does that promote equality?
10 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Yes. For women working in day care, is that equality? The fact is that they are working for exceptionally low wages.
I agree that it's early learning and it should be part of education. That's how I think you'd actually get fairness in a day care system. But I would argue that providing day care and providing more spaces is actually perpetuating inequality, because the women who primarily work in day care are not treated fairly.
10 a.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care
We do advocate for higher wages. That is one of the major issues that we do advocate for. The wage inequities happen and pay inequity happens within early learning and child care, specifically with child care workers and ECs.
I agree that it's not equitable, but that's no reason to slam a universal child care system based on that. If you fix the—
10 a.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
I'm not slamming it. First of all, I think day care is a provincial jurisdiction. The provinces should be addressing it in a meaningful way by putting it under the heading of education, because I agree that it's early learning. My wife works on curriculum, she works on teaching, and I think it's very important that we recognize this. It's important that we treat the people who work in day care fairly and equitably with people who teach at other levels.
Mr. Braniff, you're arguing for income splitting for seniors. I think what Mr. McKay was getting at—and I tend to agree with him—was the question of why we aren't talking about household income splitting as a whole. I think the major groups of seniors would benefit from income splitting, and I'm not opposed to the notion at all. In fact, it's in our broader policy guide.
Why are seniors' groups not coming forward and saying there should be household income splitting? Why are they specifically talking about pension splitting?
10 a.m.
Past Chairman and Co-founder, SenTax
First of all, we have said that and we do support it. But you argued this in 1999 before this committee, and it became entwined with the arguments I hear here about child care, only it was mixed in with the cost of commuting to work and there was no discussion about seniors.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister
Sorry, Mr. Del Mastro, but you're done.
Michael, I know the committee appreciated the paper you submitted. I wanted to outline very quickly for you some of the ideas that you did bring forward and that we did implement, as I don't want you to feel they were not.
The first one was in terms of the panels. The panels are more mixed as a consequence of the implications of your suggestion that there needed to be a greater diversity of views. We wanted a diversity of views with the panels.
Also, we actively took an egalitarian approach on the opening up of the invitations. We did not extend invitations; we simply made the information available and responded to people. We didn't invite certain groups and not others.
The third thing was that we encouraged MPs, through a kit that we developed, to do their own town halls in their own areas. And in terms of the focus group suggestion, I would also comment that MPs receive input on a regular basis. Of course, it's up to their own initiative, but certainly many of the MPs do a very good job, I would say, of asking for and receiving input from their constituents.
Finally, on the issue of those groups that are a concern to all of us and are, some would say, on the periphery of society in some respects—aboriginal women or aboriginal people, seniors, low-income Canadians—we did get a really good sample of people who presented on behalf of those folks. We were also assured by the presenters that they had done their consultations in advance of coming to us. We were counting on that happening too, and I didn't want you to feel your ideas weren't listened to.
I've used up too much time, but I'm going to use a little more by asking you something, Annalisa.
In respect of Maple Leaf's operation in Manitoba specifically—thanks for having it there—how many people do you employ?
10 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Vertical Coordination, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.
In Brandon or in Manitoba?
10 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Vertical Coordination, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.
It's probably close to 3,500.
10 a.m.
Conservative
10 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Vertical Coordination, Maple Leaf Foods Inc.
Brandon was built in 2000.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister
Prior to you setting up your operation, there was a single-desk marketing agency for hogs.
