Finance Committee on Dec. 7th, 2007

[Pierre Thibaudeau]

Let me give you a concrete example. The company cannot estimate the number of potential clients. In a normal situation, the phone company makes money when people talk on their cell phones in any location. But in our case, they cannot assess that. Many people, such as mechanics, Xerox representatives and others, come to our area for all kinds of reasons. But the phone company cannot assess whether that translates into profits. And it doesn't want to subsidize its profits.

The teenagers who live in our area go to CEGEP in Quebec City, and that is where they buy their cell phones. The day we all have cell phone access, these students won't buy their cell phones in Quebec City anymore; the parents will buy them their phones and they will pay for the service in our area. But it is hard for the phone company to assess how much money that cell phone use will generate. The company has studied the overall situation—rather than our specific one—and has concluded that it is not in its financial interest to buy that antenna.

It's just a matter of installing the basic equipment, and then it will be business as usual. I apologize for speaking English, I did not want to offend you.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Fine. So...

[Pierre Thibaudeau]

You seem too serious. Your trip through Canada has worn you out.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

It's Friday for everyone.

[Pierre Thibaudeau]

In Quebec, we relax on Fridays.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I suppose it would be impossible to have one antenna for the entire area.

[Pierre Thibaudeau]

No, not necessarily. It's a complex problem. I don't want to bore you with it. An antenna cannot cover a large mountainous area; there are some limits. So we would need another antenna or a repeater. I don't have all the answers, but I do know some things.

The program must include access, which should be negotiated by competent people. I don't have that expertise, but others do. I don't want to say something which might be wrong.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

The same applies to high-speed Internet. I know that in certain municipalities, only city hall, the local school and the downtown area received high-speed Internet access. It was done via antenna rather than by wire or cable, because that would have been too complicated. So we would need a high-speed Internet and cell phone infrastructure program for remote areas.

[Pierre Thibaudeau]

It's more a matter of lack of access than remoteness, because sometimes the areas are not really that remote. That's why I said it was important for the government to help people to stay in their communities, regardless of where they are located.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you very much. I will continue with Ms. Laidlaw-Sly.

Recommendation C of your brief concerns child care. I would like the committee to review the measures which were implemented, including the Universal Child Care Benefit in the amount of $100, which is paid each month to the caregivers of children under the age of 6. However, the person with the lower income who receives the benefit must pay tax on it, and I've often heard that this is ridiculous.

In cases where family income is very high, for example a member of Parliament who earns $150,000 and whose spouse stays at home, no tax will be paid on the benefit. On the other hand, a single mom earning $30,000 will have to pay several hundred dollars on her $1,200 benefit. It leaves me stunned. Yet we had suggested that the government tax the family income and not the income of the lower earner.

Do the people you represent have to deal with this situation? What do the members of your council think?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Just a very quick answer.

[Catharine Laidlaw-Sly]

Our members at National Council have criticized the present child benefit for just the reasons you've spoken about--because it is unfair in its application and it can be claimed as a benefit by a spouse who is doing full-time child care in the home and is not obliged to be working in the paid workforce. We believe that a program that is at least partially, if not completely, funded out of the taxpayers' dollars and is to the benefit of all the children in the country is the way to go.

We cite the example here in Quebec. All of our members in other provinces envy women in Quebec. There is as a result a minor baby boom in Quebec, because we are providing more adequate care here. It's a matter of choice, and a government that is implementing the desires of women, who are mostly the caregivers where children are concerned.

But we believe we need a comprehensive program with standards and with an early-learning component in it so that we overcome difficulties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay, thank you very much, Ms. Laidlaw-Sly. Your time has gone.

Monsieur Harvey, the floor is yours for seven minutes.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

First, Mr. Thibaudeau, you should not address your concern to the Department of Industry, but rather to the Department of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, of which Mr. Cannon is the minister. He has a budget of $25 billion for the kind of infrastructure you are looking for. I would invite my colleagues to closely study the budget so that people like yourselves are directed towards the right department and program.

Second, Ms. Noble, you said that corporate taxes should not necessarily be cut. But isn't real wealth the ability to provide jobs to the poor, rather than paying them out of money raised in taxes?

[Lorette Noble]

For me, creating employment for everybody is certainly the ultimate and first goal, because that has benefits for everybody. But when this is not possible, there should be enough support for people who are marginalized, so they will be able to live in affordable housing. And certainly single parents who don't have a choice and have preschool-aged children should have benefits that are not taxable. That is where the inequity that was spoken about earlier occurs.

Was there another part to your question?

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

As I told Ms. Laidlaw-Sly, the objective remains the same. I can assure you that I will always be there to help a homeless person, to help someone who is in a truly bad situation, or even a disabled person. However, there are different ways of helping these people.

This government's main priority is to create a business-friendly climate. There is also the international context. Everyone is aware of the competitive pressure which comes from China because of its very cheap labour costs. Chinese workers work under conditions we cannot possible provide. China pays its labourers $1 a day, something no one can compete with.

Let me give you an example. GlaxoSmithKline is a European company which moved into my riding; it spent $1.2 billion because it was offered what it needed; and 1,000 jobs were created. Our goal is to create tax measures to not only attract large-scale investment from big corporations, but also to create good jobs.

I believe you talked about low-paid, part-time jobs. But when Canada's tax system makes Canada as a whole more competitive, all Canadians of all classes benefit, including lower-educated Canadians, Canadians with graduate degrees, and Canadians who are very adaptable. We do not want to lower taxes to help property owners become richer, but to make Canada a more attractive place for foreign investment.

You also said that we should invest more in the environment. Canada has invested $9.1 billion in the environment. It is one of the countries which has done the most for the environment. I can guarantee you that the reduction objectives of 20% by the year 2020 are binding, and that Canada's greenhouse gas emissions will fall by 20% by 2020.

Ms. Catherine Laidlaw-Sly also talked about the firearms registry. Of the 498 murders committed with a firearm, three were committed with a registered firearm, which means that the remaining 495 murders were committed with illegal firearms. I would invite my colleagues of the Bloc and the Liberal Party to work with us in a more cooperative manner to create legislation which would impose minimum mandatory sentences for firearms-related offences.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Do you have a question?

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Ah, the question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Oh, oh!

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

No, not a question; it was more a comment about what we heard.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Do you have any other questions? Go ahead.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Okay.

I will talk about the isotopes of the Canadian Institute for Neutron Scattering. The government will invest $800 million. Is this over one year? Over how many years will this investment be spread?

[Prof. Dominic Ryan]

The $800 million is the construction cost. It will be spread across seven to eight years for the whole project, to bring it up to completion. So it's roughly $100 million a year. It would be small at the beginning while the engineering and design studies are done, and then it would go through a maximum while you actually did the construction, and then it would settle down to a slightly lower rate at the end. But it's over eight years.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

What was the return on investment with regard to the most recent centre located in Chalk River?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Ask a very, very tight question.