Finance Committee on Feb. 27th, 2008

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Quebec instituted its program in 2006, didn't it?

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

It instituted the program in 2003, but things have evolved. In the first year, some 2,000 people were able to use the program. Now, that number is up to 9,000 or 10,000. In fact, it is closer to 10,000 people.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Out of the 14 regions in Quebec, how many qualify for assistance under the program?

[Marc-André Roche]

Six regions qualify, along with parts of other regions. Northern Outaouais is eligible as part of the Pontiac, the north part of Mauricie, an RCM in the northern Laurentians, and six regions.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So just under 50% of the regions are eligible under the program.

[Marc-André Roche]

Yes. Those are regions comprising some 900,000 people, out of a total population of 7.5 million.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

My last question is on eligible jobs. A student goes back to his region, or plans to go back to his region to work, but changes jobs after one year. Let's say he gets a job as a mechanic, doesn't like it, and then becomes a doctor or a plumber. What happens? Will he be eligible? Even if he didn't study in that field, will he be eligible? Those details are not clear.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

In Quebec with the current program, the student is required to have a job in the field that he studied. If he has a diploma as a mechanic, he has to work as a mechanic. If after a year, he starts working as a baker, then he is no longer eligible. He can only get this during his internship as a mechanic.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

The problem comes up when there is a major job change—if he leaves the field of mechanics and goes to work in a bakery. I agree with you. There is a problem if he works for a private-sector company as a mechanic and administrator at the same time. There, things are less clear-cut.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

If he has a diploma as a mechanic and supervises mechanics, I think that's a good thing. If he remains in his field, even as a supervisor, he would still remain eligible, I believe. I think that's how it works in Quebec.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Right, you wouldn't want to stop him getting a promotion and moving up.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

No, of course not.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bouchard, first of all I want to commend you for being concerned for rural communities, because I think rural communities and various regions of the country do have more difficulty than others in attracting people and investment and in creating jobs.

That having been said, I don't think this is the right approach. I have a couple of very specific questions for you.

First of all, suppose you have people who graduated in the 1990s who are working in economically depressed regions in Quebec; if you bring in new graduates and provide them with a tax advantage, what are you saying to the people who have already decided to live in the regions? What are you saying to them? Are you saying that as established graduates working in the regions, they aren't as valuable?

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You seem to be saying that this creates some unfairness, because people came to settle in 1990 while others came to settle in 2008. In 1990, the region in question did not have any problems, however. The demographic problems began around 1995, and there was no remedy for them at the time. Today, we are proposing a remedy because regions that are losing their population are a real problem. It is to counter that loss of population and to achieve demographic stability that a program of this kind is being put forward.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Okay.

I come from a city in eastern Ontario. I'll tell you we do have difficulty retaining young graduates, because often there are better opportunities in the GTA or better opportunities elsewhere. I would never want to prevent people from getting the best opportunity for themselves that they can.

I have a second question for you. When you talk about new graduates, what about an older worker who goes back and retrains? Maybe they're 55 years old. Maybe they get a degree. Would they qualify for this program?

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

A young graduate may be 50 years old. This person could be considered a young graduate because he just got his degree. Such people aren't ineligible for the program.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Okay, so it's not necessarily a program for young people; it's a program for graduates. Is that right? Okay.

Now, typically speaking, Canada is a country that suffers from a productivity challenge. We know that. We have economists come forward and talk to us about that all the time. This bill would seem to set up a counter-intuitive incentive to improving Canada's overall productivity.

In fact, most economists come forward and say we should take down interprovincial trade barriers. They say we should have national recognition for trades in general, and that would make Canada much more productive overall--that in fact it would create much more wealth and would actually raise the economic standards of all Canadians. What would you say to that argument?

[Marc-André Roche]

That's an excellent question.

Last year the Quebec government set up a commission to study tax measures which apply to the regions and which is commonly known as the Gagné Commission. The commission found that in remote regions productivity rose far more slowly than in urban and central areas. In Quebec, productivity rose 2.5% between 1998 and 2005, 3.5% in metropolitan areas, and 0.2% in outlying regions, what you call rural regions.

The members of the commission found that what pushed productivity up was cutting-edge businesses, companies carrying out second and third-tier processing, and generally any enterprise with a great emphasis on value added. They also found that the difficulty in attracting skilled labour in remote regions prevented them from opening high tech or processing companies. So the purpose of this measure is to avoid that kind of situation and to deal with the problem of underproductivity in the most remote regions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Your time is gone. Thank you very much.

We have a short amount of time left, and I have three speakers.

Mr. Laforest, you're first, and then we have Mr. Wallace, and then if we have time we'll have Mr. Martin.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I think we've covered the question. Mr. Bouchard has explained quite a bit about this bill. If the members of the committee agree, I would suggest that we move immediately to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-207.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Is that a motion or is that just a recommendation?

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes, it is actually a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

We have a couple more questioners on it, so I'm reluctant to see it as a motion, because we're so close to the end at any rate. I would ask to see if you would allow just a quick question by Mr. Wallace and perhaps Mr. Martin.