I'm very familiar with the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan, which is certainly one of the best in Canada. What's the cost of the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan today? The employee puts in 12% and the employer puts in 12%. When people think of a pension plan that they're going to have for 5% of their payroll, they're dreaming. That's just not there.
You can think of an increase on a defined contribution basis of 5% or 10%, but to have an indexed pension plan that represents roughly 60% of the final pay of a teacher costs 25% today. People today think interest rates are low, but if you look over a long time, real rates today are not low. We're all thinking of the nineties, when we compare rates with where they are today. Historically, Canada has had a rate 2 to 2.5%. I think a rate between 1.5% and 2.5% is realistic.