Finance Committee on Sept. 30th, 2009

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I think I understand. There are two separate challenges here, where you actually have workers who you have finally been able to attract, but trying to maintain them is one challenge, and the other challenge is to try to address the poverty or the high cost of living for people who can't afford the basic needs of living. Correct?

[Margaret Melhorn]

Correct.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Connell, I have a couple of questions for your company.

First, what would you say when Pembina comes forward and asks for an increase in royalties, but meanwhile you're asking for more money to be invested when you're making money out here?

In your brief, your company is going to invest $9 million in education and training. Why is that the right amount? Why couldn't you invest $18 million or $30 million, and why is it up to the government to match your contributions for training?

[Larry Connell]

There are two things. One, the training we have, the scheduled training we're doing, is to achieve our immediate start-up needs, but that just addresses the needs of employees that we have currently coming into the workforce.

Nunavut needs a lot more. Nunavut has been left well behind when its citizens don't have the capacity to even get into our training programs because the educational systems have failed them. What I'm saying is that we have a responsibility to the company to train in those skills that we need to do our work, but government has a responsibility to make sure that there's a workforce out there that has a basic level of education and skill to at least even get in the door and compete with southern-based employees.

The educational system, for a number of complex reasons, has not done that in Nunavut. As a result, if we don't take immediate action, a whole generation will pass by before this problem gets resolved. But right now, the citizens of Nunavut don't even have the capacity to get into these training programs. And that's not the company's responsibility. Our responsibility is to put dollars into the upgrading of skills that we need within our workforce, and we're committed to doing that without any participation from government.

What we're asking government to do is to fund the basic level of education.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

If government hasn't done it up to now and your priority is to have return on investment, so you're going to need this labour force quite rapidly, what is the solution going to be? Is government going to be able to react quickly enough for you to have that workforce ready to go?

[Larry Connell]

That's why we're here. Basically, if we left it for the Government of Nunavut to do, no, I do not believe they are able to.

I don't want to disparage the Government of Nunavut. I believe they do not have the resources, the capacity, given them by the upper level of government in order to achieve that target. So they need special help, both in dollars and administrative help, in order to target and deliver those programs to the present generation.

The consequence or the alternative to that is that more of the work flows south. It comes from southern workers coming into the north, which doesn't leave any sustainable development in the north and ultimately does not help the north grow and prosper from its own resources. That's the consequence of not taking action now.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

I think we'll have time for a second round.

Ms. Cherwaty, do you have a cost for setting up a board here in the north versus the cost savings?

[Mary Lou Cherwaty]

I don't.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much, Mr. Pacetti.

We'll go now to Monsieur Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Good morning to all witnesses. I am extremely pleased to be here with you. This is my first visit to the city. It is extremely interesting to listen to what you have to say. I wish to congratulate each and every one of you for your presentations. Everything was clear and well understood.

There are a few common themes that can be detected in your different messages. It is clear that those living here in the Far North are happy, even if things are difficult for both businesses and individuals alike. People live and survive in conditions that are sometimes very difficult; and to your minds, the government must take more assertive action when it comes to both infrastructure, and helping individuals through social measures. This is, in any case, the rough summary that I would make.

There is a common thread that also emerges. Indeed, most of you are making very strong demands to improve aboriginals' quality of life, something we have heard in many other places as well. The demands are all the more urgent here in the north, because of the high concentration of aboriginal people. You are absolutely right; if we are to develop the Far North, aboriginals must receive specific assistance.

I have, nonetheless, a few specific questions for Ms. Montreuil.

In your recommendations, you talk about a fair tax system that would levy unearned income in the same way taxes are levied on earned income. Could you specify what you mean by unearned income?

[Suzette Montreuil]

It is income generated by investments, or capital gains. In recent years, there have been tax cuts to this type of income. For those who have the means to invest in this particular market, the amount of tax paid is not the same as it was in the past. However, a worker who works from nine to five does not have the same options. It is a problem that we wanted to highlight.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

When a person has the means to use his capital—

[Suzette Montreuil]

Exactly.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—to reduce the amount of tax owed, that should be considered as taxable income, so that more would go to government revenue.

[Suzette Montreuil]

What difference does $100 earned here or there make for a family or individual? We feel the tax should be the same.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

In your third recommendation, you talk about addressing social infrastructure deficits and increasing the number of day care spaces. Since the start of the pre-budget consultations, be it in Ottawa, Vancouver or Edmonton, many groups have told us that the government should further invest in infrastructure, namely in day care spaces.

What kind of day cares do you have here, in the Yukon, in the Far North? Does a system exist, is there an infrastructure, or is such a system totally non-existent?

[Suzette Montreuil]

With all due respect, sir, you are in Yellowknife, in the Northwest Territories.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for reminding me.

[Suzette Montreuil]

That is fine. I understand that you are always travelling.

There are only private day cares. There is a building support fund to open day cares. There's also an operating fund, but it is really left to community groups and private businesses. The problem is that there's clearly not enough day cares. Recently, yet another day care in Yellowknife had to shut down because it was unable to meet its financial commitments. Since I have become a mother, I have seen four day cares in Yellowknife shut down. There is truly a dwindling number of spaces, even though the economy is doing well and families want to work. Unfortunately, we ask ourselves how we can make sure our children receive a good education and are well cared for throughout the day.

[Aggie Brockman, Co-Chair, Alternatives North]

I would just like to add that the lack of early childhood education and child care spaces has a huge impact on the ability of parents to not only get employment, but also to seek the upgrading, sometimes very basic educational upgrading, as well as higher education.

For instance, our friends in Nunavut talked about the need for training. Without child care, that's not going to be able to be accessed by many parents, both women and men.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Melhorn, you are recommending that the government invest in the Taltson hydro expansion project that would displace up to 100 million litres of imported diesel. What portion of the expanded project would meet the Far North's hydro-electricity needs?

[Margaret Melhorn]

The project that I referred to, the Taltson hydroelectric expansion project, is one that would expand the capacity at the Taltson power dam south of Great Slave Lake. It would provide hydro power to the Slave province, which is a geological province where the diamond mines are. It would provide hydroelectric power to the mines, which currently use diesel-generated power. The diesel I referred to is the fuel that is used by the diamond mines to produce their power for their operations. So by replacing that, it would reduce the need for a significant amount of fossil fuel.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci, monsieur Laforest.

We'll go to Mr. Dechert, please.