Finance Committee on Sept. 30th, 2009

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I have one further question to Baker Lake. It's on the airport. What is the status of the airport project in Baker Lake? You've made an application to the Building Canada fund for federal funding on that. Is that correct? What's the status of your application?

[David Simailak]

Thank you.

There has been no application yet. We have met with Leona. We've met with Ministers Strahl and Baird. They're fully in support of the Baker Lake project. We're still trying to get the Government of Nunavut to come onside and sponsor this thing.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

It sounds like a good project to me. You can count on my support.

[David Simailak]

It is a very good project. It's Canada. And it's Canada investing in the north.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I'm just saying that I think this is the kind of investment we need to make to help the region, and I'd be happy to help you and work on that project.

[David Simailak]

I very much appreciate that. We're going to end up with a jet strip at Meadowbank, 70 kilometres north of us. We're going to end up with a jet strip at the Kiggavik uranium project, which is 80 kilometres west of Baker Lake. We're going to end up with the peasants in the middle who have nothing. So let's do something about it. Let's invest in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Dechert.

Mr. Bevington.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to be here, and I'm appreciative of all the presentations I heard today. They all speak so well to the issues. In fact, with eight presenters from the Northwest Territories, I'm having a little difficulty sorting out what I want to go after. I think the northern residents tax deduction is something the federal government recognized but didn't carry through with enough force. We had support from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, from all organizations, saying that this tax credit should be raised to 50%. That didn't happen. We got a 10% increase. The government recognized that there was work to be done here, but the work hasn't been completed. It may not address people who are in dire poverty, but it addresses pretty well everyone else in one way or the other. It increases their ability to live and work in the north.

At the airport this morning I met an aboriginal fellow I'd known for 40 years in the north, a person who trained at our colleges. He just relocated to Edmonton and was on his way up to a diamond mine. This is what's happening in the north. We're losing our people, losing the effort we've put in because the cost of living is unbearably high. If we want development that works for us, then we have to deal with the intrinsic problems in the north.

Mrs. Melhorn, you say you're reasonably satisfied with TFF. When the review panel was looking at financing, all three premiers said the financing formula should be calculated according to the cost of service. Is that correct? They presented a report saying they would like the financing from the federal government to be based on the cost of providing services in the north.

[Margaret Melhorn]

The territorial formula financing is different from what's used for equalization. It takes into account the high expenditure needs in the Northwest Territories and the other two territories. Equalization looks only at revenue-raising capacity. Formula financing is meant to fill the gap between fiscal need and fiscal capacity. All three premiers have called for adequate territorial formula financing. When we did the review prior to 2007, we stressed the need for adequate formula financing. There have been increases made to TFF in 2007 and prior to that as well, to augment the funding. We continue to review TFF. Right now it's in federal legislation until 2014, but we continue to monitor funding levels and the formula itself to ensure that it provides an adequate source of funding to the territories. It is our major source of funding and provides 70% to 75% of our revenues. It is a priority for our government.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Des Lauriers, how do you feel about the present level of territorial financing formula?

[Jean-François Des Lauriers]

It's obviously inadequate. I've made statements in my presentation to that effect. It gets worse going from west to east. It's incredibly stark in Nunavut, where the TFF needs to be adjusted by at least 50%, just to start to deal with the issues that the panellists have talked about this morning. On the issue of education, Mr. Connell has hit the nail on the head. Look at the percentage of high school graduates in Nunavut. The figure for Canada is 86.7%. For Nunavut it is 42.6%—half the national rate. To get people into the institutions that one of the members of the committee has talked about, post-secondary education and the like, you have to make sure they get at least a grade 12 education.

One of the things that—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

If I could just go on, I want to ask another question of Ms. Cherwaty.

You talked about pensions and the impact upon them. Do you not agree that in order to provide adequate pensions for people who live in places like Tuktoyaktuk, where the cost of living is 250% that of Edmonton at present, we need to have some way to assess the actual cost of living and an index for cost of living in pensions for elders so that they can remain in their communities and have any kind of lifestyle?

[Mary Lou Cherwaty]

Yes, I do agree with that. To keep the presentation brief today, the essence of it was to say that currently across Canada the Canadian pension plan is dismally underfunded as far as providing retirement security for all Canadians is concerned. In a northern context, absolutely: if there were a way to index, once the CPP has been doubled, then we could look at indexing for higher cost of living areas of the country.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I have one last question on renewable energy, which is a very important issue for me. The Government of the Northwest Territories has moved forward on a very aggressive program for biomass conversion here. You'll see many of the large buildings in this community of Yellowknife.... Yellowknife probably leads the country in biomass conversions right now—big schools and.... But are there adequate programs from the federal level to provide assistance to the territorial government in its efforts to move to a cheaper, cleaner energy source—which is produced mostly in northern Alberta as well?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Is that to Ms. Melhorn?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Yes, it is, or to Ms. Mackenzie.

[Katherine Mackenzie]

Just briefly, in line with the brief I provided on the remote wind energy incentive program, that would be part of the current ecoENERGY program. My colleague Tim Weis presented to you in Ottawa, and he presented on that program. The wind incentive for the north would just be a part of that program. As I understand it, the ecoENERGY program funds are set to run out in a few months. The renewable energy industry in Canada and of course the Pembina Institute are hoping that this fund will be renewed in the upcoming budget.

Our feeling is that compared with other jurisdictions.... The Alaskans are pretty impressive. They're really moving forward, especially on wind energy. They're looking into all kinds of hybrid systems. Wind-diesel, for example, is becoming fairly commonplace in their smaller communities. Compared with certain jurisdictions, Canada is definitely falling behind in terms of serious capital investments and also of training investments, about which of course almost everyone here has spoken.

I don't know whether that helps to answer your question.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Specifically to the biomass conversions, have you had any assistance from the federal government in doing that work?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Please be very brief, Ms. Melhorn.

[Margaret Melhorn]

I don't have that information right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

If you can provide it later on to the committee, we'd certainly appreciate it.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure whether I was remiss, but I want to thank all the presenters for presenting. Earlier, just after Mr. Des Lauriers, I got a little emotional. I want to thank everyone for appearing. It's very interesting, and it's tough for us to ask questions to everybody.

Mr. Des Lauriers, do you have the dollar amounts? You're asking, for Nunavut, for a 50% increase in transfer payments, and 20%.... What is Nunavut receiving presently from the Government of Canada? You can send it afterward. Do you have it?

[Jean-François Des Lauriers]

For Nunavut it's an increase of 50% in the TFF.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What would it be in a dollar amount, though? Would you have a dollar amount?

[Jean-François Des Lauriers]

A dollar amount? Yes, it would be $511 million in additional funding.