Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to the Atlantic Provinces Community College Consortium.

Mr. McMillan.

[Dr. Brian McMillan, President, Holland College, Atlantic Provinces Community College Consortium]

Thank you very much.

My name is Brian McMillan. I'm the past chair of the Atlantic Provinces Community College Consortium. With me is my colleague Ken MacRae. He is the executive director.

I know you have copies of our submission, so I'll just speak to some of the highlights, given that the time is limited.

Our country, in particular Atlantic Canada, needs to have a highly skilled and productive workforce if we are to compete in today's global economy. We face some challenges in Atlantic Canada, but they're not unique to Atlantic Canada.

One of our challenges, of course, is the literacy level. About 40% of our workforce cannot read at the levels required to compete in the knowledge economy.

We have another challenge with an undereducated workforce, with about 24% of our workforce without high school credentials. There's a graph in here that speaks to the probability of getting employment with only high school. Another 50% do not have post-secondary education, which, as you know, is the standard that's required today to become gainfully employed.

We also face skill shortages. Particularly with the recession, we've seen an increase in the number of individuals who want to move out of those sectors where there aren't great employment opportunities and into the emerging sectors. Those individuals do require training and support. Just as importantly, many employers today want to upscale their current employees so that the company and the employees can compete in the knowledge economy. While some funding has been designated recently for persons who are employed, I think this is an area that needs greater emphasis.

Colleges, as compared with other post-secondary institutions, tend to have a higher percentage of what we refer to as the “under-represented” populations. Those include single parents and individuals with lower socio-economic status, the bottom two quartiles. Statistics Canada shows representation of about 25% from each one of those lower sectors within our college system.

Of course, we also have a higher percentage of persons with learning problems.

I know that we have speakers here to talk about the aboriginal group. I'm sure they're more than capable of speaking to their training and skills requirements.

All of this is to say that this is a under-represented group that can become very independent with the necessary training.

So what's the good news? Well, the good news is that the community college system is very well positioned to provide this support, with over 50 campuses in Atlantic Canada. We have direct ties with business and industry. They're on each of our advisory committees, so the relationship exists. We also enjoy good relationships with government.

Also, I guess from the perspective of both taxpayers and the government, as you'll notice from the brief, there's an excellent return on investment of 13% for taxpayers. I don't know of too many groups today that will give you that type of return on investment. There's a 17% return for students annually. In Atlantic Canada, for those persons who have college credentials, it's estimated that there's a $9.6 million social savings annually.

Another positive is that we do have infrastructure, resources, and a talented research team that could help to produce more innovation and commercialization of products. Community colleges now are moving, and rightly so, into applied research topics.

The reason we use the word “applied” is that it's much more basic. When you think of R and D, we're more into the development than we are into long-term research, where you're into the discovery of new pharmaceuticals or new transplants, which have a high risk of maybe never getting to market.

What we do is provide those SMEs with technology transfer knowledge so that their companies can be competitive. There's a real return on investment. Our research tends to be much more applied. I can give you a specific example from P.E.I. in the area of agrifood. A dried potato pellet company wanted to compete with the contract of Kentucky Fried in the States. By working with research chefs, they were able to get that contract. That was done in six months. I think that's a good return.

What are the things we're looking for? We're looking for a contribution of $500 million annually for infrastructure and capital equipment so that the 7,732 students on a wait list will be able to access the college system.

We need increased funding for research. We're looking at a 5% increase there.

We're also looking for support to address the under-represented group.

Even though this year in our Atlantic colleges there are more than 7,700 people on a wait list, it is encouraging; it does speak to their desire to become educated. I think that's a real plus for us.

In summary, the college system knows what needs to be done. We have the ability to do it. We just need the resources.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll now go to the Native Council of Prince Edward Island.

[Chief Jamie Gallant, President and Chief, Native Council of Prince Edward Island]

Good morning, everyone. My name is Jamie Gallant. I am the president and chief of the Native Council of Prince Edward Island.

I'll begin by welcoming you to the traditional Mi'kmaq territory of Epekwitk.

The Native Council of Prince Edward Island is a community of people who continue to reside off-reserve throughout the traditional ancestral homelands of the Mi’kmaq people here in Prince Edward Island. With the assistance of the federal interlocutor from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, the Native Council advocates on behalf of aboriginal people throughout the province.

I'm here today to ask you to reconsider the current fiscal allocation. But before I do that, I must provide some background information on the situation on Prince Edward Island.

There are approximately 1,730 aboriginal people living on Prince Edward Island, according to 2006 census data, with 970 being female. Those participating in the census and claiming to be registered Indians are 825, of which 95 have an aboriginal language, 640 have a high school education, and 155 have a bachelor’s degree. In 2005, those over 15 years of age with no work or employment were 685, and 1,365 had an employment income of under $19,999.

Those are some statistics in regard to the aboriginal population in Prince Edward Island.

I'll provide some differences between those residing on-reserve and off-reserve. The population for the four reserves is approximately 445, with about 144 of those individuals being in private dwellings. In the Charlottetown area, there are 730 aboriginal people, with 450 being female. The Summerside area has 150 aboriginal people, with 70 being female. Aboriginal housing off-reserve is not tracked by the census system.

According to the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, federal funding provided to the P.E.I. first nations in 2007-08 was approximately $8.5 million, with $1.9 million allocated for education, $1.1 million for community health services, $2.4 million for infrastructure, $1.1 million for social assistance, and $319,000 for housing. In comparison, the Native Council received $341,900 for the 2008-09 fiscal year.

First nations per capita federal funding is about $19,000 for those living on-reserve, and this does not include allocations to tribal councils, which is a separate issue altogether.

I realize that first nations situations are distinct and would not warrant an equitable allocation of over $24 million for the other 1,285 aboriginal people living off-reserve in Prince Edward Island. I am not requesting considerations for lighthouses, railroads, or ferry services, although they may appear archaic in comparison to the current federal responsibilities outlined in the Constitution.

There have been shifts in demographics, legal definitions, responsibilities, legislation, and Indian law since Confederation. There are more aboriginal people living off-reserve, unable to speak their language and facing disparities in education, employment, and health, in comparison to other Canadians. Many of these aboriginal people are women and children, who are not in the purview or jurisdiction of chiefs and councils.

I am requesting consideration of addressing these issues through a shift in fiscal allocations. Aboriginal people living off-reserve are continually being underfunded in regard to obtaining a standard of living enjoyed by Canadians, many falling within the jurisdictions of the provincial governments. Although we as an organization at one point in the past had a good relationship, this is not the current situation that we are faced with here in Prince Edward Island.

Increased funding is required for early child development, child care, child welfare interventions and supports, language education, health, housing, justice, and training and employment. These are some examples of areas requiring attention. There may be some instances in which individuals may capture some funding between the cracks; however, they are the exception to the rule.

The federal interlocutor for Métis and non-status Indians “helps to find practical ways to improve federal programs and services for Métis, Non-Status Indians and urban Aboriginal people”, which would also require additional funding to address the issues I have raised previously.

Again, I would like to thank you for providing me the opportunity to address you here today, and I look forward to any questions that may come forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We'll now go to the Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nation Chiefs Secretariat.

[Chief Noah Augustine, Metepenagiag First Nation, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nation Chiefs Secretariat]

Before I begin, I just want to clarify. Do Chief Lawrence and I both have five minutes each?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have five minutes as an organization. My understanding is that you're both presenting on behalf of the organization. Is that correct?

[Chief Noah Augustine]

Yes. I just thought we had five minutes each, so I'll speak very quickly, I guess.

Chief Lawrence, did you want to go first? Save me a couple of minutes, would you?

[Chief Lawrence Paul, Millbrook First Nation, Atlantic Policy Congress of First Nation Chiefs Secretariat]

Okay.

I want to thank the chair and the committee members for providing us with an opportunity to provide input during this budget consultation.

Ten years ago, September 17, 1999, marked an historic day for all Mi'kmaq, Maliseet, and Passamaquoddy people. The Marshall decision of the Supreme Court forever changed the Atlantic fishery and included many of our communities in a wide range of activities in the fishery. Over this period of ten years we have achieved a great deal: over 1,000 news jobs and over $30 million in revenue for our communities. We want to build on this hard work and build a solid economy for all our communities. This will require additional direct investment by the federal government to ensure that newly created aboriginal economic development becomes real in our communities.

In this time of economic decline, we need to invest now to create the results for the future and to create the many needed jobs in all our communities. Our growing educated and skilled populations in all of our communities can be the fuel for the Atlantic economy. Investments in many of our business projects and much needed economic infrastructure is needed for our communities to play a greater role in the economy. We do not want handouts. We want to create long-term substantial jobs for our young people. We want to be part of the economy, and we don't want to continue another generation of economic dependence and despair, which helps fuel all kinds of negative behaviour in our communities. You can change this by taking action now to support the effort to create a new path for our young people where they can be proud of the way they are as aboriginal peoples of these lands.

I'll now turn it over to my fellow co-chair, Chief Noah Augustine.

[Chief Noah Augustine]

Good morning, committee.

I am Chief Noah Augustine, from Metepenagiag First Nation, and I'm executive co-chair of the Atlantic Policy Congress.

I just want to make a few comments with respect to this committee. I'm not one of those chiefs who come here banging my hands on the table looking for a federal handout, as Chief Lawrence Paul pointed out. In fact, many first nations in the Atlantic region are communities that are generating their own-source revenues now. It's the tools of governance that are of considerable importance here. I'll get into that in a second.

At the same time, it has to be noted that the federal government has a fiduciary responsibility and an obligation that they must be held to, and this is what concerns me, because there are a couple of areas I want to point out where we feel the federal government is not upholding their fiduciary responsibility--for example, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the aboriginal fishery strategy. We entered into an agreement after the Sparrow decision that we receive funding for that particular program in 1993, and today the funding level is still the same: $397,000. With the cost of living increasing and with our population demands and our first nation growing, that's not working out for us. With Health Canada is the same thing. There are some issues there concerning funding. There are a number of programs.

In this limited amount of time, I don't think I'll be able to communicate what I want to talk about, but I want to talk about the federal transfers and the equalization payments that are being transferred to the Atlantic regions. All first nations peoples are incorporated and calculated into those formulas, yet we're not considered a provincial jurisdiction or responsibility; therefore, we don't receive those services.

On the economy side of things, first nations are a major player in the economy; this needs to be noted and it's not being noted. If you look at the Marshall decision--we just had the 10-year anniversary of that. This represented the first time for many first nations to come into the economy. For many first nations it was the first time for them to be generating their own-source revenue, which now puts them in a situation where they have to consider big questions in the economy. What types of economies do they want to develop? Those are some things to think about.

A lot of first nations have a very clear vision of where they want to go. It's the tools of governance that are important to us, not the federal handouts or the federal transfers. One of these tools of governance, for example, at Metepenagiag is the tax regime. We entered into a tax agreement with the Province of New Brunswick, where 95% of all the provincial sales tax revenues come back to the first nations on economic activity generated on reserves. With property tax, many first nations in the Atlantic region are taking advantage of the federal property tax legislation for the first nations taxation commission. Now, these are tools of governance that allow us to create an environment for business on the reserves. With a business attraction strategy, it allows us to bring investors in. I think in the Atlantic region that's critical, because obviously in times of economic downturn you need all players to be participating.

If you look at the demographics of first nations.... I commented to the premier just last week that they have aggressive policies on immigration, and they're talking about repatriating New Brunswickers from out west. In your own backyard you have first nations people who represent a dynamic sector of this population. Since 2000, our population has increased by 14%, while in the Atlantic region it has decreased by 0.7%. In the next 14 years, from the 25 to 44 age groups, we're going to jump up by 25%, while this region is going to decrease by about 13% or 14%. You have to look in your own backyard at the first nations. Demographically, we're a considerable factor here.

I know I don't have much time. I have a lot more to say, but I think I'll just leave it at that, and maybe if there are a few questions I'll handle it then.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you. I'm sure you will get some questions from members present.

We will go now to the Halifax Regional Municipality. Mr. English, please.

[Dan English, Chief Administrative Officer, Halifax Regional Municipality]

Good morning, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to present to this committee today.

By way of introduction, I'll offer a few facts about the Halifax Regional Municipality, also affectionately known as HRM.

Halifax has a population of 395,000 people, constituting about 42% of Nova Scotia residents and over 15% of Atlantic Canadians. Halifax accounts for nearly half of Nova Scotia's GDP and has a stable and diversified economy. We have one of the best educated workforces in Canada, with 60% of the working-age population possessing a post-secondary degree or diploma. HRM adheres to its multi-year financial strategy, has an A-positive rating with Standard and Poor’s, and has reduced its outstanding debt by over 20% since 1998 through its debt reduction plan.

It has been interesting hearing submissions today from a diverse group of stakeholders. I'm especially pleased to have been joined earlier today by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

Earlier this year, HRM had the opportunity to invite the Conference Board of Canada to present to the Mayor's Forum on the Greater Halifax Economy on the Conference Board of Canada's hub city concept. Conference Board research has identified nine cities in Canada that are the economic engines in their respective provinces. However, in the case of Halifax, the Conference Board concluded that Halifax is an economic engine not only for Nova Scotia but for the entire Atlantic region, the only regional economic hub city in Canada.

This research showed that strategic investment in hub cities has far-reaching benefits for an entire province or region, more so than investment on a per capita basis. The hub attracts people and businesses, acting as a growth engine and spurring faster rates of growth in the rest of the region.

Increased investment in hub cities will help them reach their full potential, but it's not the only factor. Increased alignment of priorities between all levels of government and community stakeholders allows the city to advance at a faster pace by having everyone work towards the same goals. Halifax values the open communication and close working relationships it has with its government partners. In recent months, we have started some large infrastructure projects in partnership with the provincial and federal governments, namely, the Canada Games Centre, which will host the 2011 Canada Winter Games, and the Ragged Lake Transit Centre.

Like many Canadian cities, Halifax is striving to keep its aging infrastructure in adequate working condition while at the same time expanding it to meet the needs of its growing population. Infrastructure, without a doubt, is our top priority and we very much welcomed the federal economic stimulus funds announced in last year's federal budget. However, we have encountered significant issues in accessing that funding. Since the time of our written submission to this committee, we have reached a funding agreement around the infrastructure stimulus fund that will assist us with a number of projects, which we are very pleased about. That agreement was signed about three weeks ago. However, it comes too late in the year for this construction season, so its full stimulus benefits will not be felt until spring 2010.

I must also note that Halifax submitted two successive funding applications in April and July, both of which were rejected due to concerns that they did not meet program criteria. It is our belief that both applications did meet published criteria, so we strongly urge that future programs establish funding criteria that are clearly and consistently applied in order to avoid such delays.

We are experiencing similar delays with the Building Canada Fund. Although this fund was announced two years ago, HRM does not yet have a funding agreement.

We want to go on record as supporting the recommendations of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities around infrastructure: one, that program eligibility criteria are clear and consistent nationwide; two, that program details and processes are available 60 days following program announcements to reduce unnecessary delays; and three, that infrastructure move to program-based funding such as the gas tax, which is reliable, easily accessible, and ensures accountability.

In closing, we look forward to building on our positive and productive working relationship with the federal government. The permanent gas tax and economic stimulus programs recognize the vital role municipalities have to play nationally and provide the foundation of a strong and equitable partnership. Collaboration on our shared priorities will lead to a positive outcome for all our citizens.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for your presentation.

We'll now go to Every Woman's Centre, with Ms. Smith-MacDonald.

[Louise Smith-MacDonald, Director, Every Woman's Centre]

Thank you very much. On behalf of Every Woman’s Centre, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to present this brief to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance.

As a women’s centre, we are very interested in the education and employment opportunities for women and adolescent girls. In our capacity as a women’s centre, we see hundreds of women who are struggling to make ends meet for their families in a system that does not provide the necessary tools to seek meaningful employment or to further their education.

Geographically, the area we serve is Cape Breton Island, which is made up of a small declining urban population, a large rural area, as well as coastal communities. The area has many social and economic problems, such as unemployment—as noted further in the brief, our unemployment rate has reached as high as 17.3%—a lack of adequate and affordable housing, poverty, out-migration, an aging population, a lack of resources for adequate health care, and little or no transportation. Those are just some of the issues we face. We are particularly concerned about the persistence of poverty.

I will move ahead to our recommendations so that I have a chance to get them in.

Our first recommendation is that the federal government adopt a national poverty reduction strategy, recognizing that poverty reduction is not just the responsibility of any one political party. A national poverty reduction strategy is the responsibility of the Government of Canada and must be endorsed by all political parties through legislation. Any framework for poverty reduction should outline action plans, timelines, and measured outcomes with a reporting-back system to the people of Canada in a timely manner. It should be developed in full consultation with those who are living in poverty.

The development of a national poverty reduction strategy must consider the specific needs of women who are living in rural communities and should involve two major areas--namely, adequately meeting people’s basic needs and supporting people’s efforts to develop their skills and capacities by providing the necessary tools so that they are able to fully participate in community life.

Recommendation two is that any moneys provided by the federal government to stimulate the economy be viewed through a gender lens. The millions of dollars that have been announced through the stimulus package offer very few opportunities for women. Most of the money is designated for building infrastructure. It is well known that only about 7% of women work in construction and non-traditional jobs.

We have more women working in low-income jobs who are paid to be poor. Their wages don’t allow them to look after their basic needs or those of their families. Poverty is not just about welfare; it is about creating sustainable employment so that those who work are not poor.

Money should be spent to help create job opportunities, which in turn will boost spending. By putting money in the pockets of low-income families, we are assured that the money will be spent to buy the necessities, not invested in offshore businesses.

For women to take advantage of employment opportunities, there needs to be meaningful training offered in their home communities and then jobs available where they can use this training. There needs to be an integrated, multi-dimensional approach to providing training programs that focus on community development.

The third recommendation is that a national housing strategy be developed that is adequately funded to build homes and to build community capacity. Based on Statistics Canada data, Canada Mortgage and Housing reports that 15% of households in Nova Scotia are in core housing need. This means that 52,000 households in Nova Scotia experience housing issues related to affordability, sustainability, and adequacy.

Current affordable housing programs do not reach people in the greatest need. Owning your own home is simply out of reach for the many thousands of families who are living with low income, and this is especially true for lone-parent families headed by women. Banks and mortgage companies refuse to lend money for housing to low-income women. Those who manage to save enough money for a down payment are still unable to purchase a home because of the closing costs associated with the purchase. These costs are not included in the mortgage.

The revitalization of the housing market could be a great boon to the economy. Trades training programs and a government guarantee for loans could be directed to women, who are then able to form cooperatives to build and repair homes in their communities. The benefits of owning your own home, as opposed to spending a lifetime paying rent to a landlord, are immeasurable.

I have not been able to attach a financial figure to any of these recommendations, but I do see the costs associated with not providing adequate resources to families, through health care costs, the justice department, and mental health and addiction services.

I welcome any questions. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for your presentation.

We'll now go to Ms. Boyd and the MacKillop Centre for Social Justice.

[Mary Boyd, Coordinator, MacKillop Centre for Social Justice]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The MacKillop Centre for Social Justice thanks you for this opportunity to appear before this committee.

We will start by also recommending a poverty eradication strategy and saying that there is tremendous support for this in the Canadian public. Nowhere is that support higher than in the Atlantic provinces.

The federal government has an important role to play in the establishment of a long overdue poverty eradication strategy for this country. We urge the government to commit funds immediately to match the efforts of the provinces and encourage them to enlarge their efforts.

In times of economic crisis, such as the current one, social programs are often created for the benefit of Canadians. Canada does not have an official poverty line. We need one. Until it is established, we suggest that the Statistics Canada after-tax low-income cutoff is a suitable measure.

Countries such as Ireland have shown us that there are other very important measures and indicators of poverty for western countries. Steps must be taken to consult Canadians, especially those in poverty.

With our tax system, it will be difficult to eradicate poverty in this country unless changes are made to the current system, which favours tax breaks to the wealthy over the needs of those in poverty. The result is a growing gap between rich and poor. This must not be allowed to continue.

In no way should the Canadian government give in to demands for a flat tax. We need a much more progressive tax system than the current one.

Business-funded political parties keep promising tax deductions, especially to the wealthy, while at the same time people are led falsely to believe that we cannot afford such essentials as our public universal system of health care, as well as other essential social services, including child care, housing, better systems of income for adult workers, and programs for aboriginal people.

Canadian workers, the unemployed, the self-employed, people with disabilities, and seniors on modest pensions are feeling the crunch of less social support and fewer social programs. Instead of federal tax breaks and subsidies to the energy corporations in Alberta that destroy the environment through carbon emissions and fuel the U.S. war economy, Canada needs to learn from Norway, where corporations are made to pay their fair share. Some of this money could go toward tax incentives to establish sustainable economic projects that will build a green economy for this country.

The bottom fifth of all income earners has seen incomes drop by 31% since 1984, with average personal incomes declining by 6%, the biggest drop since the Great Depression, while the wealthy have become wealthier.

We recommend that the Standing Committee on Finance seize the moment to begin the long road of making right the wrongs present in our society, especially the way the most vulnerable are treated, and we ask that the committee also recommend that we play a larger role in fighting global injustices and inequalities.

We recommend that Canadian tax policy be reformed to make taxes more equitable and to help eradicate poverty in this country. We recommend that unearned income be taxed at the same rate as earned income; that corporate tax rates be returned to pre-1980 levels; that a green tax be placed on all toxic market commodities according to their lifestyle carbon imprint; that incentives be given to Canadian businesses and citizens to lower their carbon footprint; that banks be made to loan a certain amount of their money to green economy projects; that incentives be given to Canadians to reduce fossil-fuel energy consumption; that there be no tax cuts; and that low-income Canadians be helped through effective and compassionate social programs that reduce costs and put new income into their hands.

On the international level, the Canadian government should take the lead in promoting a tax of one-tenth of 1% on international financial transactions. This tax would raise billions of dollars internationally to help fight poverty around the world. The committee should urge as well that taxes on transnational corporations become transparent.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have one minute left.

[Mary Boyd]

Also, we believe that public-private partnerships are a huge waste of taxpayers' money and should be stopped.

We also recommend that the qualifying period for EI be reduced to a minimum of 360 hours, that the rate of benefits be raised to 60% based on the best 12 weeks of work, and that the two-week waiting period be eliminated. This would be accompanied by an increase in the minimum wage. Mr. Chairperson, we believe the federal government should take steps to ensure that there's an equal minimum wage in this country.

We also ask you to look at the way farmers have been neglected. It's heartbreaking to watch hard-working farmers struggle to avoid bankruptcy and witness them selling productive agricultural land for subdivisions in order to survive. What does this say about the neglect of agriculture, the neglect of farmers, and the need to keep our land for future generations?

Finally, Mr. Chairperson, we believe the war in Afghanistan is wasteful. We believe that Canada should pull out of combat, go back to its peacekeeping role, and save lots of money for development projects in Afghanistan and other parts of the developing world.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll now go to questions from members. We're going to start with Mr. Easter again.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming. As usual, there are too many questions and not enough time.

Brian, I'll start with you. In your presentation, you said all you need to get there...you just need the resources to do it. That's a multi-million dollar question. I know Holland College, in your own area, is also doing considerable work in China. If you look at the number of engineers and what they're doing in China, we're falling behind.

The question to you is, how do we stack up against the rest of the world? With education and youth, that's where our potential is. I have a question on that to the Native Council and the chiefs as well. How do we stack up against the rest of the world, and what do we have to do to at least get an equal footing through our college system?

[Dr. Brian McMillan]

Actually, when you look at innovation and research, we are slipping as a country to where we stood internationally. Also, with the emerging economies of India, China, and now Brazil, I would say that within a few years they will be extremely well positioned to challenge Canadian business with regard to having a highly skilled workforce. There are some pending threats. In fairness, I think the KIP funding that was recently given to the post-secondary institutions has had a significant impact. I know it has allowed us to increase our enrolment.

The tragedy, I believe, is that once again you have to make choices as to where your money is going to be spent. When we hear about poverty and about innovation and competitiveness, it really starts with your workforce being highly skilled and educated. What I find interesting, having been in this business now for 20-some years, is that it's not that we don't know what to do; we do. We know how to help people become engaged and to move from unemployment to employment and make a meaningful contribution. Every year we have testimonials from graduates who have been on the lower socio-economic ladder. Now they're out there with very significant jobs.

Our view, and that's why we presented the information on economic return on investment, is that we think that's a pretty compelling case to deal with a lot of the issues our country faces.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

There are a number of areas where I could go, but I want to ask either Jamie or the two chiefs, when you travel across this country...and I think Chief Augustine made the point about demographics, that we're depending on immigration as a country to a great extent to increase our population. One of our greatest potentials is with aboriginal youth. It's the fastest growing sector of our population, and we're not seizing that opportunity as a country for many reasons.

If you had two key recommendations to make to this committee to achieve the potential that is there within that increasing demographic of aboriginal youth, what would they be? That's where a lot of the future of our country lies, and it's being ignored in too many ways.

[Chief Noah Augustine]

Thank you for the question.

There are two things--first, education.

I just have to go back to grade eight and grade nine, when I used to hang my head in shame sitting behind a textbook because I learned about the savages, the Indians, attacking all the poor settlers on the land. People don't have an appreciation, a proper education, with respect to the treaty rights, particularly here in the Atlantic region. That's through the education system.

I raise that point because it's important. Look at the troubles we're having with the waters--with the Burnt Church issue, with the Marshall decision--or in the woods over natural resources. We have many conflicts today that are derived from the misunderstanding and improper education that people are getting with respect to treaties.

The second point I want to raise is with respect to our aboriginal youth. As I told the premiers, while they're out there with their immigration policies and repatriating, on the reserves our chiefs are passing around condoms because our birth rates are so high. That's a fact. The demographics are there. They're in place. We have the fastest growing population in the Atlantic region, and right cross Canada, in terms of first nations. What we need to do is focus on that.

The people in my community who are 35-plus, let them.... We have the seasonal employment programs there for them, fisheries and everything else. There's not much I can do about changing their lives or their careers at this point in time, except just making those programs available. But I have this young group coming up. They're the ones we have to focus on. It's not just in terms of post-secondary education; it's in the trades as well. We need to focus on that young group that's coming up, educate them, and train our workforce. We have that workforce potential in the backyard here.

Those are the two points I'll make about that.

Thank you.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

To the Halifax folks, you mentioned the Atlantic gateway. That is extremely important for all of Atlantic Canada.

I just seem to believe, though, when you look at some of the funding that's going to the Pacific gateway and other areas across the country, that we're not even in the game in Atlantic Canada.

Where are we at, from your perspective, on the Atlantic gateway?

[Dan English]

Actually, I did not mention the Atlantic gateway in my speaking notes. It might have been in our submission. I'm glad you raised it.

Yes, when you look at the funding that has gone to the Pacific gateway, it's...and that's what we modelled the Halifax gateway on, first off, and then the Atlantic gateway.

I think, through Minister Peter MacKay, we are making progress there. I've seen some good signs, just in recent weeks, in fact. I think there will be some announcements hopefully coming soon.