Finance Committee on Oct. 7th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I call to order this meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance.

I thank you for appearing before us. We will be having two panels today, both an hour and a half in length. Witnesses will have five minutes each for their presentations. Then there will be questions from members of all parties.

We will begin with Mr. Gilbert, representing the Mouvement pour les arts et les lettres. You have five minutes.

[Bastien Gilbert, Chief Executive Officer, Regroupement des centres d'artistes autogérés du Québec, Mouvement pour les arts et les lettres]

Good morning, and thank you for inviting the Mouvement pour les arts et les lettres, or MAL, a Quebec coalition representing over 10,000 professional artists, artisans, writers and cultural workers in Quebec. The MAL advocates for a substantial increase in public funding for the arts and culture in Quebec and Canada, given the essential role of the cultural industry in shaping Quebec and Canadian identities, improving the quality of life of city and rural residents and contributing to Canada's economic prosperity.

In a global economy based on creative knowledge, it is in the interest of the Canadian government to invest massively and strategically in our artists and cultural workers. In doing so, it has to consider arts and culture research, creation, production, dissemination, training, education, market development—whether local, national or international—and promotion as inseparable activities. The MAL believes in the Canadian government's ability to contribute to better living and working conditions for artists and cultural workers, while making it easier for Canadians to access Quebec and Canadian arts and culture. Moreover, it is incumbent on the government to make the financial commitments to help meet the development, consolidation and sustainability challenges faced by those organizations and institutions that support our cultural vitality.

Beyond their indisputable economic impact—sizable share of GDP, job creation, etc.—artists and cultural workers help build a society that is democratic and respectful of people's differences, representing an investment with both quantitative and highly qualitative spinoffs.

The MAL is pleased with the Canadian government's recent announcement of a five-year investment to renew the “Tomorrow Starts Today” program—announced in June by the minister, Mr. James Moore—which will help sustain a number of effective programs, thus ensuring a certain stability for artists and cultural workers to plan their development. Nevertheless, the MAL wishes to draw the attention of the Standing Committee on Finance to three recommendations it believes will help position the Canadian government's recent commitments within a sustainable development strategy for Canada's arts and culture.

First, the Mouvement pour les arts et les lettres calls on the Standing Committee on Finance to recommend that the Canadian government incrementally increase the budget of the Canada Council for the Arts over the next three years up to $300 million, as it has called for since 2003.

Second, the Mouvement pour les arts et les lettres recommends that the management of arts promotion and distribution support programs—and I am referring here to the programs abolished last year—be entrusted to the Canada Council for the Arts as soon as possible, providing it with at least $12 million in additional funding per year.

The third recommendation has to do with cultural diplomacy. Since 2006, Canadian cultural diplomacy has been significantly undermined by Canadian political officials. There has been over $10 million in cutbacks in cultural funding to Canadian embassies and consulates, which have had to either abolish their cultural attaché positions or convert them into trade-related postings. Quebec and Canadian artists are thus deprived of expertise that is crucial for them to position themselves in the largest cultural markets, which are New York, London and Berlin. The turning of Canadian diplomacy towards trade and industry affairs was confirmed by Mr. Pelletier, an assistant to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who states that “[...] 171 officers are tasked with cultural affairs, among other responsibilities. There are also 93 trade delegates who assist Canadian cultural exporters.”

In our view, the cultural attaché positions were indeed eliminated as part of the dismantling of the third pillar of Canadian diplomacy, i.e. cultural diplomacy. We recommend that cultural diplomacy be restored as one of the pillars of Canadian diplomacy.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for your presentation.

The next witness is Mr. Patry, representing the Confédération des syndicats nationaux

[Pierre Patry, Treasurer, Confédération des syndicats nationaux]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the committee for inviting the Confédération des syndicats nationaux, the CSN, to take part in these budget consultations. It is always a pleasure for the CSN to participate in these activities.

The CSN is a union organization representing 300,000 members, primarily in Quebec, although it has members throughout Canada. Our membership is fairly equally divided between the private and public sectors, putting us in most sectors of economic activity.

As part of the present pre-budget consultations, we are being asked for our views on two major questions. The first question concerns the tax, budget and financial measures that are needed to ensure prosperity and a sustainable future for Canada. The objective of the second is to determine which of those measures are the most effective as stimulus measures. It is clear to the CSN that these two questions cannot be treated separately. Any short-term stimulus activity requires a vision of the future, but that vision must be a desirable one for Canada.

We favour a number of measures, the first being EI reform. In numerous appearances before the Standing Committee on Finance we have stated that the situation was utterly unacceptable. Right now, over half of those who lose their jobs do not have access to EI. Despite successive reforms since the early 1990s, Canada is now in an economic recession with a program more ill-suited than ever to the existing situation. Canada's protection is inferior to the average protection offered in other OECD countries. The financial situation in Canada is good and Canada could do much more to improve EI assistance.

Clearly, just increasing the maximum duration of benefits is a step in the right direction, but it does not go nearly far enough. For those without access to EI benefits, extending the duration of benefits is of no help at all for many.

The rate of unemployment continues to rise in Canada. In-depth reform of the program is urgently required. Of course, there are social repercussions, but the program is a key economic stabilizer because EI benefits are immediately plowed back into the economy in the form of consumption.

If EI is not reformed, pressure will be created on the provinces, which are responsible for income security programs such as social assistance. The shortfall in EI benefits must be made up by the provinces in social assistance. People are worse off and this results in pressure on the provinces.

The CSN is calling for a number of measures, measures also being called for by the Sans Chemise, a broad coalition of union organizations, and grassroots and community groups.

The first is to establish an eligibility threshold of 360 hours for all regions, which would of course improve access to the EI program. The second is to eliminate the two-week waiting period, which unfairly punishes claimants, leaving them without any income in the interim. The third is to increase the income replacement rate from 55% to 60% of normal earnings, based on workers' 12 best weeks and a different qualifying period.

Finally, we would like to see an income security program for older workers so that they can bridge the gap between the end of their employment and the start of their retirement. We made this proposal during consultations on the state of the Canadian manufacturing sector. There were already massive job losses. In the current recession, I think it more urgent than ever that such a measure be implemented.

The second thing we are pushing for is federal fiscal reform. It is clear to the CSN that Canada's fiscal imbalance has not been resolved. In fact, Quebec's main gain in the 2007-08 budget was wiped out the following year when the equalization formula was unilaterally changed. A step, however imperfect, had been taken to address the fiscal imbalance and this gain was lost. Furthermore federal transfers have increased more slowly in Quebec than in the rest of Canada. The federal transfer payments Quebec receives are 28% lower than in 1994-95, while Alberta receives 45% more.

As for social assistance, Quebec receives a little under $3,000 per recipient while Alberta receives $11,000. I would also remind the committee that there is still an $800 million shortfall for post-secondary education compared to 1994-95 levels.

It is possible to do something about this, even though there is a deficit. According to the parliamentary budget officer, the structural deficit is only 1% of potential GDP. In 1977, when there were much larger structural deficits, there were still tax transfers to the provinces for health and education.

The third point has to do with government economic stimulus measures. In the last budget, the federal government set aside 2% of GDP, including the contributions expected from the provinces and municipalities. In terms of the amount, this is in line with the International Monetary Fund recommendation. But spending must continue, because the unemployment rate is a grave concern. In July, the unemployment rate was 8.6% in Canada, 9% in Quebec and 9.3% in Ontario. The OECD has predicted that Canada's unemployment rate will reach 9.8% in 2010. Action is still required.

Finally, it is our view that the stimulus plan adopted in 2009-10 is not fair. Ontario received the lion's share for its automotive industry. In fact, Ontario received $3.4 billion in the last budget, while the entire Canadian forestry industry got $170 million. Despite recent additional funds, most of this will go to British Columbia, leaving little for Quebec's forestry industry.

I would also add that in terms of stimulus, too little has been done with respect to the environment. Canada is drifting further and further away from the Kyoto objectives. Yet the economic crisis is also a good opportunity to support public transit, green energy and energy efficiency. Adopting short-term stimulus measures will mean more prosperous and sustainable long-term development in Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Merck Frosst Canada Inc.

[Christian Blouin, Director, Public Health and Government Relations, Vaccine Division, Merck Frosst Canada Inc.]

Good morning. My name is Christian Blouin and I am here today representing Merck Frosst. I would like to begin by thanking you for allowing us to address you today.

We at Merck Frosst Canada are recommending that the government renew funding for the National Immunization Strategy, or NIS, program. I will begin by outlining the program's success in giving Canadians access to new vaccines and why we believe that this program must continue to be funded. I will also speak about two illnesses we can now prevent with vaccines recently developed by Merck Frosst Canada as examples of the types of innovative and cost-effective vaccines envisioned by the NIS program.

In the last 50 years, immunization has saved more lives in Canada than any other health intervention. That is a remarkable feat. Vaccines have incalculable social and economic benefits ranging from reduced hospitalizations and related medical costs to allowing more Canadians to stay healthy and be productive. Vaccines are truly the most cost-beneficial health intervention of our time.

In 2003, the National Immunization Strategy was adopted to ensure Canadians had access to the latest vaccines. Between 2003 and when the NIS was later renewed, five new vaccines were introduced from coast to coast. It has been estimated that twice as many Canadian children were protected against vaccine-preventable diseases in 2006 compared with 2003. This is a monumental achievement on the part of Canadian members of parliament.

In 2007, thanks to continued government funding of the NIS, $300 million was provided to support HPV immunization programs across the country. Today, although terms of coverage for this vaccine vary between individual provinces and territories, cohorts of girls are able to receive protection from the risk of contracting cervical cancer. This is an innovation which will save thousands of lives in years to come. However, despite these successes, there are continuing gaps and disparities in access to vaccines. Most new vaccines have not been incorporated into provincial public immunization programs, putting Canadians unnecessarily at risk. This is why Canadians need to know that the NIS will continue to support access to important and innovative vaccines.

We will look at two specific examples of how the NIS can help to protect Canadians from shingles and rotavirus—two examples of innovative vaccines which offer tangible benefits to Canadians. Shingles—also known as Herpes zoster—can cause debilitating pain, as well as scarring, pneumonia, hearing loss, and facial paralysis. Shingles will affect one out of every three people in this room over the course of our lifetime. The risk increases with age, with half of cases involving people over 50. The pain caused by shingles too often prevents over-60 Canadians from leading full and productive lives—interfering with activities ranging from employment to housework. Shingles impacts our health care system, resulting in up to 252,000 physician visits annually. Shingles also impacts our long-term facilities, which are already overburdened. However we now finally have a vaccine available. ZOSTAVAX was approved by Health Canada in 2008. ZOSTAVAX cuts in half the incidence of shingles for those over 60—turning what used to be inescapable for many into a preventable illness.

A second recent Merck Frosst vaccine, approved by Health Canada in 2006, prevents rotavirus. Virtually every Canadian under the age of three has been infected with it. Though rarely fatal, it disrupts the lives of families of children who contract the illness as it is a severe type of gastroenteritis with quick onset. The cost of work lost by adult family members of sufferers amounts to $25 million per year. Rotavirus leads to 5,500 hospitalizations, 17,000 emergency room visits and 41,000 physician consultations annually. However, the RotaTeq vaccine, by preventing the onset of rotavirus, can reduce physician visits by 86%. Indeed, a vaccine such as RotaTeq is especially critical to vulnerable populations including aboriginals, who often face crowded living conditions, may lack running water and where healthcare services may be limited. Like all other Canadian infants, children of families in this type of environment would greatly benefit from having a vaccine which would prevent the hardship and rapid spread of rotavirus.

Right now neither the shingles nor the rotavirus vaccines are part of provincial public immunization campaigns and so Canadians are losing out on important opportunities to stay healthy and productive. Vaccines have proven themselves again and again as the most cost-effective health intervention. This is why the National Immunization Strategy cannot be allowed to lapse. Canadians count on being able to access innovative vaccines which also offer tangible financial benefits.

Furthermore, in this era of pandemic concerns when hospital and medical services may be even further taxed, it makes sense to reduce the number of otherwise avoidable hospital visits wherever feasible. This is an example where government has a chance to show leadership and really make a difference.

We recommend, first, that the federal government commit to renewing the NIS program by investing the sum of $100 million per year to ensure Canadians have access to important new and innovative vaccines; second, that the federal government work with provinces and territories towards establishing a permanent funding mechanism to ensure adoption of new, recommended vaccines in public health programs within six months of their approval by Health Canada; finally, that the Government of Canada ensure that NIS program funding is separate from the Canadian Health Transfer payments to provinces and territories so that funds are designated specifically for immunization programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci beaucoup.

We'll now go to McGill University.

[Victoria Meikle, Senior Policy Advisor, Office of the Principal and Vice-Chancellor, McGill University]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

My colleague Vaughan Dowie and I wish to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Finance for the opportunity to speak this morning. We will be splitting our presentation. I will begin with McGill's first recommendation and Vaughan will take the second and third.

McGill University recommends that the federal government significantly increase the funding for university research, including direct funding for research and compensation for the indirect costs of university research. You don't need me to tell you that innovation is the key to the future prosperity and well-being of Canadians, or that universities play a vital role in innovation. University research creates knowledge, and universities train highly qualified staff who will work in all organizations of the innovation system in the years to come, whether in the private sector, in government or in universities themselves.

In order to continue to offer a high-quality education to students, universities in Canada require funding that is competitive at international levels for teaching, but also for research. At a research-intensive university like McGill, one of the hallmarks of the education we offer is that teaching is informed by the research carried out by professors.

The federal government is the key funder of university research in Canada. The cost of research can be divided roughly into two types: the direct cost of research—the funding that goes to investigators and scholars to carry out the research, to hire research assistants, and to pay for supplies in order to be able to carry out the research activity—and also the institutional or indirect costs of research. These are costs associated with paying for specialized equipment that's necessary to carry out research, research libraries, research computer networks, and to hire specialized technicians to run the complex machinery that is required to carry out research.

Institutional costs also occur in relation to the research process: applying for research grants, administering grants, reporting; they cover activities that enable universities and societies to get the most benefit from university research, such as protection of intellectual property and technology transfer activities. The institutional costs are related also to activities that enable universities to ensure that we are meeting regulatory requirements and that ethical review takes place.

At the current time, institutional costs of federally funded research are compensated in the most research-intensive universities at the rate of just over 21 cents per dollar of directly funded research. A number of studies and practices in other jurisdictions that fully meet the institutional cost of research indicate that these costs are in fact between 40 and 60 cents on the dollar, depending on the kind of research undertaken. The moneys that research-intensive universities like McGill use to cover the institutional costs of research are taken from other parts of their budgets, including the operating budget. Were the federal government to fully compensate for these costs, we would be able to use those moneys for other important aspects of the academic mission, including teaching, services to students, and of course dealing with our deferred maintenance costs.

The first recommendation of McGill University is that the federal government should make a significant increase to financing for research, including both funding direct research and moving to full compensation for the institutional costs of research.

Thank you.

[Vaughan Dowie, Executive Head of Public Affairs, McGill University]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, I will fly through the other two recommendations. I think you probably have our speaking notes, and I won't repeat what you can already read for yourself.

The second recommendation has to do with the support of the federal government for a program for post-doctoral fellows. Currently there are a number of programs that the federal government has, both for graduate students and for academics, whether it be the Canada research chairs, the Vanier scholarship for doctoral students, or whatever. One important part of the research composition that needs support consists of post-doctoral fellows. There are currently about 6,000 of them in Canada, although the number is soft because they are counted in different ways. There needs to be a program both to support the functions within the research enterprise as well as to attract the best scholars to the country. We have quantified this as a program of about 1,000 scholars at a level of about $60,000 per person.

The second aspect has to do with trying to provide seed money as well as targeted support for international partnerships for Canadian research networks. These are not limited to universities but include partnerships between universities, industries, and governments across the world in order to make sure that Canada is an important player in international research consortiums and is able to maximize the strengths we have within this country.

I can speak about this more in questions, but I know your time is limited.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for your presentation.

The representative for Réseau SOLIDARITÉ Itinérance du Québec has the floor.

[Marie-Claude Vézina, President, Director of La Chaudronnée de l'Estrie, Réseau SOLIDARITÉ Itinérance du Québec]

Good morning and thank you to the committee members for allowing us to address them.

The Réseau SOLIDARITÉ Itinérance du Québec represents some 250 organizations working in the area of homelessness and homelessness prevention. This morning, I am accompanied by Louise Fortin, the director of SQUAT Basse-Ville here in Quebec City. This organization for young runaways from 12 to 17 years of age is part of the Regroupement des Auberges du cœur du Québec. In addition to my duties as president of Réseau SOLIDARITÉ Itinérance, I work for a soup kitchen and a drop-in centre in Sherbrooke.

In Canada, the federal government has been involved in the field of homelessness since 1999. The Liberals, under Jean Chrétien and Claudette Bradshaw, introduced the SCPI for a period of three years. This program was renewed four times by successive governments. It was very useful. The number of homeless people in Quebec and Canada is on the increase.

In 2005, the federal government estimated the number of homeless in Canada to be 150,000. According to an old Quebec study from 1997, 28,000 people in Montreal and 11,000 in Quebec City were considered homeless. This study was conducted in emergency shelters, soup kitchens and drop-in centres. When we speak to just about anyone in Quebec and to some of our colleagues elsewhere in Canada we can see that homelessness has increased significantly in recent years. Fortunately, the federal government has provided funding, because had it not done so, I believe the situation would be even worse, especially because so many people do not qualify for employment insurance. These are some of the people who find themselves homeless. They are men and women of all ages and from all walks of life. We are also seeing more young people in our various organizations.

SCPI became the HPI before becoming the HPS, or Homelessness Partnering Strategy. Consultations are now under way for this program for 2011-2014. Since 1999, Quebec has received over $130 million as part of this strategy. Funding was received in 2001 under the Canada-Quebec agreements.

This is a good program which has shown its worth in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada. But we are more familiar with the situation in Quebec. One of its strengths is that priorities are set by the various local and regional communities. We would like to see that continue for 2011-2014. Two years ago, for the first time, the Conservative government announced that the program would be in place for five years. We are very happy to see it extended for more than one or two years. This is long-term work. We are glad to finally have something for 2009-2014, although some aspects need to be re-assessed for 2011-2014.

We are asking the Standing Committee on Finance to continue and to increase funding. In Quebec, based on applications received, more than $50 million annually is needed to meet demand. Right now, we receive $18.5 million. When we file our applications, it is for more than three times that amount for almost all regions in Quebec. With projects being carried over from one year to the next in Quebec City and Sherbrooke, it is not possible to begin anything new. In Sherbrooke, the need is great. In Quebec City, it is the same. In Quebec City and Sherbrooke, we have social housing projects. But a roof and four walls is not enough; community support is needed as well. The lack of funding makes that impossible. There are many solutions, but they require money.

The strength of this program is its diversity. It is general in nature, addressing not just the needs of housing, youth or aboriginals. Homelessness concerns everyone. It is important that this program be maintained.

What is needed is a $50 million increase in funding, while maintaining existing priorities. In Quebec, we have identified 12 municipalities or major centres, as well as remote areas. People in these communities are the best placed to determine urgent needs and priorities. We must keep the same kind of program; it has shown its worth and we are happy with it. Quebec has its own delivery model. I believe the National Secretariat on Homelessness is pleased with how this program is working in Quebec.

Let us carry on with what is working. All that is needed is more money to keep the worst from happening. Even the UN rapporteurs, who periodically evaluate countries such as Malaysia and Vietnam, tell Canada to step up its efforts with respect to homelessness, poverty and social housing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Next we will hear from Mr. Gaston Lafleur, representing the Conseil québécois du commerce de détail.

[Gaston Lafleur, President and Chief Executive Officer, Conseil québécois du commerce de détail]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Finance for giving us this opportunity to speak to them about two concerns we have as part of the pre-budget consultations.

The first has to do with the impact of the increase in debit and credit card transaction fees, an issue that was the subject of special consultations by the committee in spring 2009. Second, we would like to make committee members aware of the need to harmonize legislative and regulatory frameworks regarding Canadian environmental matters in order to lighten the complex and onerous financial and administrative burden on the retail trade and other sectors.

For retailers in all provinces, whether large or small, credit and debit card transaction fees represent a significant cost. Retail trade profit margins are often extremely slim, especially so during the economic downturn that has lasted for over a year now. In this context, all expenditures must be taken into account. Now Visa and MasterCard have chosen to increase credit card transaction fees and enter the debit market in Canada. The Retail Council of Canada estimates the various transaction fees paid by retailers in exchange for the privilege of accepting credit card payments at over $4 billion. These fees, therefore, account for a substantial share of retailers' operating costs.

Our members are satisfied with the debit card payment system as it now stands. It is effective, and the related fees are reasonable. The standard fee is a fixed cost per transaction rather than a charge based on the value of a transaction; it is simple and prevents Interac from profiting unduly from inflation.

The arrival of new players on the debit market will not, in our view, lead to a decline in rates. On the contrary, we are convinced that rates will increase. In this regard, the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce states the following on page 32 of its June 30, 2009 report entitled “Transparency, Balance and Choice: Canada's credit and debit card systems”. I quote:

“[...] the Committee believes that, because of the nature of competition among payment systems, there is a risk that debit card payment competition would lead to rising debit card costs for payment processors and merchants and, eventually, to higher retail prices for consumers.”

[Monique Bilodeau, Vice-President, Finance and Commodity Taxation, Canadian Council of Grocery Distributors (Québec Section), Conseil québécois du commerce de détail]

Given the large volume of debit card transactions, and in order to avoid a hike in prices as a result of escalating fees, the Coalition québécoise sur les hausses de frais de transaction par carte de crédit et de débit believes that, like the Senate committee, the government should take the appropriate measures to avoid introducing interchange fees or fees that are not based on the actual cost of debit transactions, and subject all corporations entering the debit market to the rules set out by the Canadian Payments Association.

We must stress that imposing interchange and other fees would have a significant detrimental impact on retailers.

Quebec and Canadian retailers are placing a lot of hope on the forthcoming recommendations by the Standing Committee on Finance and decisions of the Minister of Finance. This major issue has mobilized them like few others in recent years.

[Gaston Lafleur]

Therefore, on this issue the Conseil québécois du commerce de détail believes that the federal government should take the appropriate measures to avoid the introduction of interchange or other such fees that are not based on the true costs of debit transactions, and subject all corporations entering the debit market to the rules set out by the Canadian Payments Association.

With regard to the second topic, the harmonization of waste management rules, retailers have helped achieve tangible sustainable development targets for a number of years now. They have volunteered their time and effort to support end-of-life product disposal initiatives. In Quebec, for example, there are extended producer responsibility programs for paints and oils. Over the years, all Canadian provinces have established a list of products covered by these types of programs, which require that end-of-life products be taken back.

The Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment is now attempting to establish a general framework to guide the federal and provincial legislatures in crafting their own regulations. We commend the council for this initiative and have participated in the related consultations.

Furthermore, the council is of the opinion that such harmonization must first and foremost simplify and facilitate the opting-in of producers and their participation in these programs, and support targets to improve the environmental performance of products and the effectiveness of programs, not increase the administrative burden of corporations with more government red tape.

In this regard, we recommend that the federal government table general regulations containing common guidelines regarding waste management systems in order to streamline programs among all provinces and thus help reduce the financial burden on corporations caused by the vast web of standards.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much for your presentations.

Mr. Pacetti, you have seven minutes.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses who appeared. We have been across Canada and I believe that this is the first time that all the panellists have spoken French. So congratulations! I will try to ask all my questions in French.

My first question is for Mr. Gilbert, from the Mouvement pour les arts et les lettres.

Your first recommendation was that funding for the Canada Council for the Arts be increased to $300 million. How much does it receive now?

[Bastien Gilbert]

The current budget is $186 million. That is the budget allocation approved annually by Parliament. There has been a $30 million increase since 2007.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

You want this funding to be increased to $300 million over three years, in other words an increase of ...

[Bastien Gilbert]

An extra $40 million a year will add up to $300 million.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

You are calling for an additional $12 million for other international programs.

[Bastien Gilbert]

In point of fact, these are programs that were ...

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, but it is an additional amount.

[Bastien Gilbert]

That is right.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

And that would be managed by the Canada Council for the Arts as well?