Finance Committee on Oct. 7th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to talk to Mr. Grégoire about the Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec.

Your presentation was good. In the past, the first priority was always to divide the transfers to the provinces into one amount for post-secondary education and another for social transfers. It seems that in the past two or three years, that type of request is no longer being made of the government. I was on the government side when funding for research and foundations was increased and separated. We always said that we increased the funding that was cut in 1984. You cannot see it in the transfers, but it is all there. I think we should first ask what amount is allocated to social transfers and what amount is going to post-secondary education.

[Jean Grégoire]

The different amounts that are transferred to post-secondary education mostly consist of loans and bursaries and commitments to foundations. These transfers are not part of the Canada Social Transfer. That is why, together with a host of other social and political organizations across Canada, we keep asking for $3.5 billion.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Can you repeat that? In the $3.5 billion there are social programs, but there is also funding allocated to post-secondary education.

[Jean Grégoire]

It is for education in its entirety, not just for a loans and bursary program. For that type of system, the funding allocated to research is not part of that transfer. The loans and bursary program also needs a great deal of money, as we were saying in our presentation.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

In 1984, that funding did not exist. The government always told us that it did not replace the cut transfers, that it created these distinct allocations and that if the two allocations were added it would all work out in the wash. They also include the social transfer allocations.

[Jean Grégoire]

On one hand, the research funding has been diluted. On the other hand, we have had the right to withdraw from a good portion of the funding for loans and bursaries since the 1960s. The allocations are truly separate. Also, in the past four years, there have been cuts to the transfers to Quebec for loans and bursaries. As such, there is a shortfall for students of more than $100 million.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

For loans and bursaries?

[Jean Grégoire]

For loans and bursaries in Quebec alone.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Was there a transfer? The millennium scholarship program was cut; does that not affect students in Quebec?

[Jean Grégoire]

The $100 million for loans and bursaries we are talking about does indeed cover the millennium scholarships that were cut for the last year. Quebec cannot withdraw with full compensation from the new Canada Student Grants Program, which replaces the CMS Foundation.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

To Mr. Broad from the Shipping Federation, what's going to happen with job creation? You're asking for a lot of money to be invested. I'm not sure if I understand. Are all those ships going to be built in Canada? I'm not sure we have the facilities to do that.

[Michael Broad]

No. We said we could either build nine of them offshore for $330 million, or build them here for $990 million. Those are estimates. I doubt there's the capacity here to do it, but that's not the point.

The point is that the coast guard has a fleet of 18 vessels involved in icebreaking in the Great Lakes, the St. Lawrence, and Newfoundland during the seal hunt. Of those 18 vessels, nine are probably at the end of their lives right now.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So it's not a question of economic stimulus and trying to create jobs; it's a necessity.

[Michael Broad]

Exactly. You have a fleet that needs to be renewed.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

We've established that the ships are required, but you're asking the government to invest huge amounts of money. How do you make sure there are spinoffs from that?

[Michael Broad]

I think that's for the government to decide. You have a bunch of ships out there that need to be replaced. It's either that or you don't replace them. As the coast guard said, unless they get more funding they won't be able to provide the services they do to so many people--industry, Transport Canada, Fisheries and Oceans, and many others.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I understand the need.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Mr. Grégoire. I would also like to make a comment.

Earlier Mr. Wallace alluded to the requested funding. We know you were talking about $820 million for Quebec. This is a request that is quite often made by the Bloc Québécois. We go over this quite often during question period. That amount was never provided for post-secondary education in Quebec. That is very important. We will continue to fight for it.

Mr. Wallace also said earlier that you went back to the time when the Liberals were in power. I want to remind the committee that the Conservative government has nevertheless been in power for four years now and it has never corrected any of this. There was no reason for Mr. Wallace to smile.

It is important that you take a little time to provide us with some context as to the significance of this $820 million for Quebec.

[Jean Grégoire]

Over the past year, we have worked with other organizations in Quebec to calculate how much we are owed. The cuts to post-secondary education did indeed occur under Mr. Axworthy and had a major impact on funding for universities.

Currently in Quebec, universities are underfunded by $375 million. A good portion of that amount, or roughly $260 million, is a shortfall. It is a shortfall related to the transfer, or government funding. This is a significant amount compared to the rest of Canada. These transfers are important for education.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Broad, you told us earlier that there was a serious lack of funding to renew the icebreaker fleet for the St. Lawrence Seaway as well as for the far north, I imagine. There are forest fires in Quebec. The Government of Quebec has equipment and planes to combat them. These fires are a reality. Canada is a Nordic country, but I get the impression that these people have forgotten that there is ice in the seaway and that there absolutely needs to be reinvestment.

Is Quebec's current icebreaker fleet adequate for allowing safe navigation and ensuring that trade generated by navigation on the St. Lawrence is maintained?

[Michael Broad]

I will ask Mr. Lantz to answer that question.

[Capt Ivan Lantz, Director, Marine Operations, Shipping Federation of Canada]

No, it is not.

For the security of commerce, of the industries, the fleet is no longer sufficient. We are missing vessels allocated to the St. Lawrence River and the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Great Lakes for the support of commercial navigation, for the industries--the iron ore transportation industry, the grain transportation industry, the aluminum industry--that exist along the St. Lawrence River and the St. Lawrence Seaway.

We need more vessels now. Last winter we missed vessels. There were days when they had to pull the vessel away from the Quebec Bridge. It is not an acceptable situation to have the Quebec Bridge unattended, at the height of the ice season, by the coast guard.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Gaudreault, you said that the Port of Quebec was the second largest port in terms of tonnage. What is the largest?