Finance Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Since you opened the door, I'm going to stay with you on this one. Our learned colleague on the other side believes that we're good at basic research, but we're not good at commercializing it. You gave us an example about the bird flying across the Pacific. Your first sentence got us rolling our eyes a little, but then you went on to explain it.

I want to put the onus back on your industry. Earlier today, we had solid examples of what research was doing in omega-3 eggs at the University of Guelph. I remember that because I'm a University of Guelph graduate. I'm throwing it back to you. Having better examples, doing a better job of illustrating what research is actually able to accomplish, would be better for us as policy-makers than just asking for money.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

[Paul Vincett]

May I answer that?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Yes, but very briefly.

[Paul Vincett]

Did anybody read the front page of the Globe and Mail this morning? “Breakthrough” is a word that shouldn't be used as much as it is, but we have had a breakthrough in Canada in understanding breast cancer. It may well lead to the ability to provide personalized treatments that could be hugely important in treating this disease. That was based on work done in B.C.

The Globe and Mail mentioned that it was supported by some charities. It was also, probably primarily, supported by CIHR, which is one of the granting councils. I can't think of anything more important.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We're going to go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.

I don't want to seem crude, but on that note, Mr. Jones, is Canada going to see any money or positive spin-offs from that?

[Paul Vincett]

I think all the evidence is that the country that initiates the key basic understanding, which is what's happening here, is very well placed to achieve a lot of the spin-offs.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Wright, I have a question for you. In your presentation, or while you were making your presentation, you were talking about the stimulus money and you said that more stimulus was needed. The question is why would more stimulus be needed? Is it because in your experience all of the money has been spent already, or is it because you haven't seen any of it yet?

[Marion Wright]

Thank you for your question.

I think it is more the former than the latter, and the need is extremely great. We also thought that with the stimulus funding, a broader focus on the home sector would better address some of the significant needs of children and youth and families. We're losing the battle—and the war.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Has the stimulus money gone to your homeless projects?

[Marion Wright]

Yes, it has, thank you, gratefully.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

Just quickly, Mr. Stothart, I saw your presentation and the list of companies you're affiliated with or are representing. Your one recommendation is the accelerated capital cost allowance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that many of these companies are not in the best financial condition and may not take advantage of the accelerated capital cost allowance. So I'm just wondering if there is not another request, or if this recommendation is really based on just a few of the companies or associations you represent.

[Paul Stothart]

I think it remains a valid request. I'll just speak for the industry I'm familiar with, and that's mining, mineral processing, and metals. Things turned down from late 2008 to pretty early in 2009, but metal prices have come back fairly strongly—nickel, copper, zinc, etc.—and companies are starting to invest again. I think that will translate into more activity for the supplier sectors, etc. Certainly, from the point of view of that industry sector, I think the global situation is such that companies are going to start investing a lot more.

I think it's still very important to ask for the ACCA to last five years so that companies can have this planning horizon and be confident that the allowance is going to be there in five years when their investment is completed.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I asked because there doesn't seem to be any request for the science and research technology credits and refundability. We saw a lot of that last year, actually.

[Paul Stothart]

I'm sorry, but you asked...?

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I mean the refundability of the science and research credits, the SR&ED credits that some companies have been building up.

So you haven't heard any of your companies or members request that?

[Paul Stothart]

No, it's not a huge issue that I'm aware of. But as I mentioned earlier, companies think the program is fairly paperwork-intensive and bureaucratic and that there's a lot of room to improve the administration and process of that program.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

I understand Madame Faille has a very brief question, and then I have two brief questions.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I just have a question for the representatives of the organization that works with the homeless.

A little earlier, you said that the stimulus money went to the project heads. But those of us who live in these areas see that there is also a growing need in this respect, and new projects are not being funded.

When you talk about increased and ongoing funding, are you requesting a certain amount of money for these new projects?

[Marion Wright]

Yes, we are.

The homeless funds have been frozen at about $135 million for the last 10 years, and that's across the country. The need continues to rise and is growing extensively in all communities of Canada.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you.

I will be brief. Earlier, with respect to the research industry, we heard about problems related to regulations. Our colleague across the table was saying that you should provide more examples regarding molecules. I also think that there are situations involving the regulatory framework where the government could do a much better job.

Take probiotics, for instance. Depending on whether they are in a yogourt or a capsule, they are two completely different mechanisms as far as certification and marketing go. Innovative companies might be able to get off the ground today, but they cannot because they are caught in a maze of red tape.

[Paul Vincett]

I'm sure that's probably true. I'm afraid I have no expert knowledge of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

As chair, I want to ask two very brief questions.

First of all, to the Canadian Federation of Students, you've called for a post-secondary education cash transfer payment, and we've certainly heard that from student groups before. But there was an exchange that Mr. Dechert had with a student group in Quebec, and I thought that group was very firm about saying the money should be transferred to the province but the federal government ought to attach no ties whatsoever to that money once it's transferred to the province.

I tend to hear the opposite from student groups that are outside Quebec. They say the federal government ought to have some accountability mechanisms or ways in which the province reports back to the federal government as to how that money is allocated, to ensure that it goes for things you talk about in terms of tuition reduction or whatever.

We're hearing two diametrically opposed views, depending on whether you're in the province of Quebec or not. Does your association have a firm position on that?

As a committee deliberating this, if we're hearing two very different strong views, how do we reconcile those two opposing positions?