Finance Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[Chris Luellman]

Correct.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

The transit passes are about to expire?

[Chris Luellman]

Correct.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

That's actually a good thing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. McKay.

Monsieur Laforest, s'il vous plaît.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Good morning to all our witnesses.

In his presentation, the president of the University of Manitoba said that he would like to see an increase in funding to promote post-secondary education for aboriginals. Ms. Makinson and Mr. Jacks, you have also addressed that issue.

My first question is for Ms. Henning, since she has said that she is aboriginal. This is basically the same question that I put earlier to the representative of the University of Manitoba.

You would like that the federal government increase funding to promote post-secondary education among aboriginal students. Is that because you find that the high school graduation rate among aboriginals in general is sufficient? Should we not begin by increasing the funding for the primary and secondary education of aboriginal students, who could then simply pursue their post-secondary studies and obtain a college or university degree?

What are you views on that, Ms. Henning?

[Dr. Denise Henning]

Thank you very much. I appreciate the question.

I am going to say that, yes, there needs to be an increase across the board in K through 12, as well as post-secondary college and university. I say that by talking about equity and inclusion. Equity and inclusion means that everyone has a level playing field. Right now, aboriginal people across the board, regardless of where they are in their lifelong learning process, do not experience equity and inclusion.

So when we talk about northern Manitoba, for example, I respectfully say that the mean accomplishment area is grade 7, but mature student programs are directed towards grade 9. That's a huge impact. So for people who are right now in the workforce and trying to make an impact and to provide for their families and for their communities, they're at a deficit to be able to do that.

What we are advocating is that all aboriginal people should have inclusion and equity in education across the board. This includes early childhood education as well, where we have had a 300% increase in early childhood education training in the north, where we suffer a thousand-seat deficit for early childhood education in early childhood facilities. So it's about equity and inclusion and our students having the same access to the same amenities that southern institutions and K-through-12 programs offer.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

Your reference to early childhood education brings to mind a question for Ms. Henderson.

You have raised the example of Quebec with regard to the quality of its early childhood services and day care program. We have heard similar things from various groups. Whether in Vancouver, Edmonton or elsewhere, people are calling for a similar national program or a transfer of funds toward the various provincial legislatures in order to establish such a program. However, there is something I find missing from your presentation. You say that quality early learning services benefit employers and families, but you do not specifically mention women. That is an area that has been given much attention. The other witnesses who have made similar requests say that single-parent women would often benefit the most from a high-quality, effective day care program.

Is that because Manitoba has fewer women or single-parent families than elsewhere?

[Michele Henderson]

I don't think so. I think in our brief we mentioned Canadian “parents”. That could be a two-parent family or a one-parent family.

It's absolutely crucial for early learning and child care for a one-parent family. I can speak to that personally, that without that kind of care I have no idea how I would have managed to support my family.

It was just that we lumped it all together as “parents”, be it two-parent families or single-parent families.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Bell, I do not know the size of your municipality's budget, but if the federal government were to give you an additional 10% of that budget, would you invest that amount in public transit, municipal infrastructure or affordable housing? People often answer that they would invest equally in all three priorities. Simply put, what is your priority?

[David Bell]

That's a great question. I think I would have to say that, at this point in time, although we have a huge municipal infrastructure deficit and requirements, I would have to put the social aspects as a priority. We have spent significant amounts of time with the provincial government, working to try to bring appropriate, affordable housing into our community.

The city of Selkirk is home to the Selkirk Mental Health Centre, which of course has been there since 1876. I work there full time as a psychiatric nurse and see first-hand how homelessness affects not just the working poor, not just young people starting out, but individuals who maybe don't have all the resources that many of us are so fortunate to have. So I see very much a broad-based need for social housing. I think it's really important that we recognize that there is a component of homelessness, not just in Selkirk but certainly throughout Manitoba, and throughout Canada, of course. I don't think that, in the 21st century, people should ever have to be sleeping in the streets or young families should have to be concerned about where they're going to raise their children.

So given the opportunity, and in terms of our budget, if you were to hand me cheque today, I would be walking down to the provincial government, to Minister Mackintosh, saying “Let's get started, pal.” That's where it would go.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Merci, monsieur Laforest.

Mr. Dechert, please.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your presentations. I find them all quite informative.

I'd like to start with Athabasca University and Ms. Van Rooijen.

I was interested to hear about your university and the courses you provide online and by distance.

As you know, our government, in Budget 2009, provided a significant amount of money—I think it was over $250 million—to build rural broadband networks across Canada. Is that helpful to your university and your students in reaching out to students in rural and remote areas?

[Lori Van Rooijen]

Absolutely, and that's critical as a foundation for any kind of ICT vision that the country develops. I can only speak to the education component. We reach a significant population in our rural and northern areas, mostly in Alberta right now, because that's where we've been focusing. But I was happy to hear of some of the work my colleagues are doing in northern Manitoba.

We find that there is still a large number of students or potential students who cannot access online material because they do not have things like broadband in rural areas. They're still on dial-up. It is problematic that in some aboriginal communities and reserves there is nothing. They're using satellite now, which is sometimes not as consistent. From our perspective, that is fundamental to education.

We also believe very strongly in our universities that people should not have to leave their communities to attend school. That's a barrier. When people leave rural communities, they tend not to go back. This is an economic drawback in our rural areas.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

That's a significant point. I will ask Ms. Henning to comment on that.

Three weeks ago, this committee was in the Northwest Territories and we met with a number of communities and educational organizations. They made the case that there are a lot of jobs available in mining and other resource operations but that aboriginal students are not being trained for those skilled jobs. Should we be concentrating on those kinds of jobs so they can remain in their communities in the far north and take some of those better-paying jobs?

[Dr. Denise Henning]

Thank you for asking that direct question. Yes, we should be doing that. It contributes to the economic base of the first nations and Métis communities of northern Manitoba. However, we need to be providing things beyond social services, social work programs, and education programs. We need to be cultivating scientists.

My colleagues talked about northern meteorology and climate change studies, which is one of the development programs we have for our Bachelor of Science. We rely on our elders to talk about what they have been teaching us for the past 100 years about climate change. It's been coming. But they have been ignored because they are seen as illiterate. They are seen as not as good, because difference translates to lesser. We need to be providing for the whole spectrum in our northern communities, because it makes for a better Canada.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Fair enough.

Ms. Van Rooijen, you mentioned in your submission that Canada is falling behind in the research and development required to advance in the digital economy. In your opinion, what country is leading in that area, and what does the government of that country do to assist and promote R and D in this area?

[Lori Van Rooijen]

That's a good question. There are a couple we mention in our brief that are leading the way. Some of the northern countries like Denmark and Norway are focusing on ICT development. It's in a broad range of areas, not just about research and development. A lot of that information is available, but we're not using it in the implementation of any kind of learning strategy or e-learning strategy.

One of the areas we are focusing on in our university, which is what we call our mission-critical research, is in mobile learning. Most people have a cellphone, but not everybody has a computer. Being able to look at how mobile learning will be the equalizer for education is critical for us. A lot of those countries are looking at mobile strategies. It has an industry component, too. In Canada, we are falling behind in our cellphone ability and—

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

How does the government address that?

[Lori Van Rooijen]

There are lots of policies and processes the government can look at. Consider how we allow our cellphone rates to be regulated in different ways. The United States is working on this; so is Europe. They have policies in place. It's not just one area; it is across the board. Policies in a particular department of government need to coincide with policies in another area of government. That's why the implementation of a comprehensive ICT vision has not happened. It is difficult, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you for that.

I'm a bit short of time, so I want to quickly go to Mayor Bell.

I was interested in your comments on social housing. As you know, in Budget 2009 our government provided over $2 billion for retrofit and new social housing and assisted accessible housing. Was your community able to access any of that money? Has it been helpful?

[David Bell]

It has, though probably to a very minor degree. We've seen some of the social housing receive some retrofit--not a tremendous amount and certainly not all.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Hopefully, that has freed up some funds for other development areas. In my region, in Peel region in Ontario, there is some significant grant money for retrofit of some existing social housing. The Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada said it was the largest amount that a government in Canadian history has provided in that area of social need. I take it that it is helping. Hopefully, we can do more.

[David Bell]

That would be wonderful.