Finance Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I'm losing time here.

My final question is to Kaaren Neufeld, and it has to do with the three recommendations you make: the pharmaceutical strategy; the $55 million for nursing research over 10 years; and the $10 million, which was essentially taken from the previous government's proposals in their last platform.

Why would you think this government would be at all interested in a national pharmacare strategy?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Ms. Neufeld, if you could answer that very briefly, please go ahead.

[Kaaren Neufeld]

Certainly. I think it behooves all of us to be looking at the fact that these are critical issues to Canadians, and the Canadian Nurses Association will continue to put them forward because they do have a significant impact on the quality of life of Canadians and families as well as their ability to produce economically for the country.

They are issues, and we will continue to move them forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Monsieur Laforest.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to all our witnesses. I am pleased to be here in Winnipeg.

My first question is for Mr. Barnard from the University of Manitoba.

In one of your recommendations, you call on the federal government to invest in university programs and services which support aboriginal students. Would it not be preferable to increase funding for primary and secondary education for aboriginals? With better primary and secondary education, more of them will want to attend university. Is this not like putting the cart before the horse?

[Dr. David Barnard]

I think that's a very good question. Certainly in this province the likelihood of an aboriginal person who has completed high school going on to university is higher than the likelihood of a non-aboriginal person who has completed high school going on to university. So we're relatively successful in attracting those who have completed primary and secondary school into the university system. That said, they're still not attending university in representative numbers.

If we wanted to start with primary and secondary school, we would have a long time before we saw a difference at the university level. Our feeling is, as I believe most of our colleagues across the country would agree, that we need to work at all levels at the same time. We would certainly see investments in university programs being targeted, at least in part, to cooperative programs between universities and secondary schools to increase the graduation rate. I think you've put your finger on a very important point, but starting and waiting a decade until we increase the flow out of the system I think will lose us a large number of young people in this country who we should not lose.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think that the same is true for all groups of citizens, whether aboriginal or non-aboriginal. If young people, regardless of their backgrounds, have a better education system to support them early on, then more of them will attend university and, consequently, the graduation rate will increase. However, I also understand that there is agreement among a number of your colleagues that substantial investments should be made at all levels to improve the quality of education for aboriginals.

My second question is for Mr. Dobrowolski, representing the Association of Manitoba Municipalities. You are recommending that the federal government establish a department of rural affairs, which currently does not exist. Would that not rather be a matter of provincial jurisdiction? I know that the Quebec government has programs to deal with rural issues. By creating a federal department of rural affairs, the government might encroach on each province's jurisdiction.

[Doug Dobrowolski]

From what we're seeing of the programming, especially what municipalities are seeing from the federal government, it's just that the rural Canada voice doesn't seem to be at the cabinet table. Programs and policies are designed, it seems, more from an urban setting than from a rural Canada setting. A one-size-fits-all program does not work in Canada. It does not work in Manitoba. We need to have the appropriate people at the table who understand the issues, who understand rural Canada in particular, who understand what goes on in rural Canada and in rural parts of each of the provinces, to help develop these policies, so that when things come out, they're streamlined, people understand them, they're clear, the processes are clear. It's not going back and asking 100 questions on how to figure out this program.

If we had a rural champion at the table who understands rural Canada, I think it would go a long way to help with processing some of these policies and programs the government tries to initiate.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Are there not already elected members from rural areas who lobby the various orders of government? This, to me, would be like creating an overlapping structure, at least with respect to provinces. I thank you for your answer.

My last question is for Ms. Neufeld. Your third recommendation deals with the creation of a health human resources institute. Here again, are you not recommending that the government create an infrastructure that, in my view, would constitute a form of duplication? We already have Health Canada. Couldn't that mandate be assigned to Health Canada or isn't it already assuming part of those responsibilities?

[Kaaren Neufeld]

Thank you.

We are talking about a pan-Canadian health human resources institute that we would like to see established so that we see federal leadership on coordinating a response to our health human resources crisis in this country. This isn't just about nursing; this is about the right mix of health providers across the country from province to province. Health care workers are highly mobile these days, and we are seeing that we need a national approach to this whole issue, because health care workers can shift from province to province, which is just shifting the problem around. We are asking for federal leadership similar to the federal leadership we are currently seeing around H1N1 planning and implementation. We would like to see that in terms of health human resources by the setting up of an institute where we can collaboratively work together with other health professionals to work on this issue as a nation, rather than individually as provinces or individually as professionals.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Basically, this brings us back to the question I asked earlier. Do the provinces not already have mechanisms in place to ensure information sharing, professional development, skills transfers and labour force mobility? I would think that labour force mobility is an issue of provincial jurisdiction, is that not so?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Be very brief, Ms. Neufeld.

[Kaaren Neufeld]

I see the real importance of federal leadership on this particular question. As we have an increasing number of agreements, such as agreements on internal trade, and as we are seeing increased mobility, this is actually a critical question at a national level, not just at a provincial level.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you. Merci.

We'll go to Mr. Wallace, please.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the guests for coming this morning.

I have seven minutes, so I'm going to go fairly quickly and try to hit virtually everybody, if I can.

This is on the airport issue. I'm from Ontario, and I'm relatively close to Pearson, so I hear about the rent issue quite often. As a percentage of your total costs, what is your rent?

[Catherine Kloepfer]

It's $5 million out of about $40 million.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It's relatively significant.

[Catherine Kloepfer]

Yes, it's a big number for us.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That agreement to pay rent was signed when and with whom?

[Catherine Kloepfer]

In 1996 it was signed between Transport Canada and the airport authorities. And then it was amended in 2005 to change the formula to be similar across the country as a percentage of rent.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

You've been at it for a number of years. Okay, thank you for that.

This is for the organization of municipalities. One thing I would challenge you to look at are the ridings in which members of cabinet actually reside before you determine that there is not a rural voice. Prior to the previous election, there were many fewer urban voices at the table, to be perfectly frank with you.

On the gas tax--I used to be a municipal councillor for 13 years, and we got no money from the federal government at that time--did you want all the money spent through the Building Canada fund converted to gas tax uses, without the leverage those other programs provide us with the provinces? Would you be satisfied that it would be up to the municipalities to chase the provinces for the balance?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

What was good about the gas tax model was that it was on a per capita basis. It wasn't application-based, so at least everyone got some money.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

They got something.

[Doug Dobrowolski]

They got something. No matter what size of community or municipality you were, you had access to some dollars. We're very appreciative of the money we've received under the Building Canada fund, but it's an application-based program. It's basically like a lottery: if you got picked, you got picked, and if not.... The needs are all there. With a gas tax, it is long term, predictable funding, and it also allows long-term planning for municipalities.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That was my question. Would you like to see all that money converted to gas tax money?