Finance Committee on Oct. 21st, 2009

[Lucy White]

That's correct.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you for that.

I'm going to ask Pamela a question directly, based on what you just said. We had the Canadian Nurses Association in front of us yesterday, and they were talking about a pan-Canadian health services organization. My take-away from them was that we needed to develop one and get it started. But you're saying in your file you actually have a plan or a strategy but you need a group to actually implement it. Is that correct?

[Pamela Fralick]

To maybe clarify it, what we have...and I know the folks; we work very closely with the Canadian Nurses Association and the Canadian Medical Association. There is a pan-Canadian health human resource framework that has been bought into. It's developed by an FPT, so federal, provincial...everyone's bought into it. So the framework is there and strategy, the outline of what needs to be done, including a lot of issues around education that we're talking about today.

What we don't have, however, is what we call an observatory, a health human resource observatory, which is a concept that comes from the World Health Organization. There is a European observatory; there is one in Africa and a couple of other places. So it's coordinating all the pieces, because that's not happening.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay. I'm not sure I got that message from that--

[Pamela Fralick]

My apologies.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No, that's okay, but I'll check my notes, because I didn't keep theirs.

On the infrastructure issue, I want to ask you this point-blank. We're running a deficit that we're not that excited about, but the world is doing it and we're doing it also. There are one-time expenses. Your vision from what I've heard today is more of a longer-term piece that would require one of two things. We either tax more to raise the money to have a longer-term program or we reduce expenditures elsewhere and move them over to infrastructure.

Does your organization have a position on either one of those items?

[Andy Manahan]

There is a third way that I refer to in terms of the transportation modelling, and that's user pay. So that is indirectly another tax.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

But you talk about political suicide also in the same breath.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Andy Manahan]

Let me give you an example. This glass of water here probably costs about 1.5¢, and that's paid through water rates. If you increase water rates by 10% as they're doing--actually, it's 9%--every year in Toronto, people really don't blink about that. So there are other things--

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Just so you know, I was on the municipal council in Halton, and we'd been paying the true costs of water and so on for many years. We were probably a little bit ahead of the curve with municipalities on the piece. So I was interested in what your position was.

My second question to you is this. I've heard from my friend in Peel quite a bit about the sustainable development round table. Let's say we fund it. I need to fund something that's going to have deliverables, and what do you see the round table's deliverables being?

[Andy Manahan]

There are a number of things. My understanding is that their mandate is to look at things like life cycle costing. So it's not just a case of making infrastructure investments, but it's a package.

My friend here, Paul, with Bird Construction, many years ago used to talk about how it's not always the low bid that's going to get you the value for your money.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Governments work on cash accounting.

[Andy Manahan]

Yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So it's money out the door, and we don't have the ability to write it off over time.

[Andy Manahan]

Again, I would use the leverage of the P3 model.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay.

[Paul Charette]

If I could add, I think the P3 modelling is fabulous. P3 Canada has done a great job in collaboration with the provinces. It may be mortgaging your future because there are availability payments that go on for 30 years, but at least we can get infrastructure built today.

It's not a matter of whether we can afford it. Can we afford not to do it? That is the big issue. P3 is one of the delivery methods.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

As chair, I'm going to take the next spot.

There are three issues I want to address. First, with respect to the recommendations for a market access and development fund or a market access and innovation program, it's a very similar recommendation, obviously, but the wording around them is a little different in terms of the justification in that one seems to be fully focused domestically, connecting with Canadians, and some of the other seems to be in terms of promoting artists abroad. Is there a component in terms of promoting Canadian artists abroad in this, or is it simply on connecting Canadian artists in Canada to Canadians?

Both of you can address that quickly, please.

[Shannon Litzenberger]

Yes, absolutely. There is both a domestic and an international focus in this fund. As you know, there was some reduction in funds that support international export in the performing arts, so we are looking at re-imagining how we can better address the distribution of performing arts products both domestically and internationally.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Is that the same answer for you, Ms. White?

[Lucy White]

For many arts organizations, there needs to be a balance of both. If you are in Vancouver, for example, a tour might encompass both visits in the United States and visits in northern B.C. To have a fund that could address that reality would be very helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thanks for mentioning the fringe festival, which is a real source of pride in Edmonton. I'm a fan of the Stratford festival as well. I was hero for a day when I did the marquee announcement for the fringe festival, and then when the folk festival didn't get money from the same program, I was not quite the same hero.

Going forward, is it better advice to the government to simply fund through the Canada Council for the Arts, rather than set up separate festival program funding?

[Lucy White]

There are certainly advantages to government to let the Canada Council do what it does best.