Finance Committee on Dec. 8th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

It's not accommodating Mr. Mulcair; it's accommodating the committee. It's a parliamentary committee. Members have a right to speak to motions. There's a motion on the floor; the member is speaking to it. But the issue is that there is noise from next door that is disrupting the committee. That's an issue.

Mr. Pacetti.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I don't want to leave the room. Because I'm very interested in what Mr. Mulcair wants to say, I haven't left the room. I'm not even sure who's out there, but the people who are out there are fully entitled to rent the space. I'm not about to go out there and try to disrupt whatever's going on there, just as I don't think they're trying to disrupt what's going on here.

So I would suggest that, because of my high interest level in hearing what Mr. Mulcair has to say, he continue until otherwise notified. Or we could suspend for 45 minutes and come back at 9:40.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Mulcair, I don't know what you expect me to do, as the chair. What I'll do is ask the clerk to go and ask them to respect us for the next hour. I can't force the celebration going on next door...if they choose not do that, but I will ask the clerk to go.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Unlike Mr. Pacetti, I actually know who's out there. He doesn't seem to know, but it's colleagues in the Liberal Party who are just outside that door and who are refusing to respect the sanctity of Parliament.

With respect, Mr. Chairman, your primary obligation is to ensure that the rights of parliamentarians are respected. Our right, as parliamentarians, is to be here tonight doing this work on this bill. I accept your invitation to allow Jean-François Pagé, our clerk, to go outside and to make the necessary representations, and we'll see if we're able to do our jobs. But I would request, given the extreme nature of what's being done out there, that you make sure you also protect the debating time that was set aside by the House of Commons for the discussion of this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

According to the order from the House, at 9:43 p.m. I have to put questions on all the clauses and amendments before the committee, as per the motion that was voted upon.

Monsieur Paillé.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like to make a comment.

Although I am not in the habit of defending my colleague to the left, that fact remains that this type of thing would never happen in other parliaments. Last week, at the Bloc Québécois' Christmas party, the Speaker of the House was in attendance. He said that he would attend all the Christmas parties. I presume he is on the other side. I believe you have an excellent interlocutor in the Speaker of the House, but if we enforce the rules of order in the House, it seems to me we should also show some respect for parliamentarians. We are not here to have fun. I know you may find it tiresome to listen to Mr. Mulcair but, I personally, prefer his comments to this kind of music.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. I welcome that suggestion. The clerk or I will go and ask them to reduce the noise, but Mr. Mulcair, I ask you to continue at this point with your discussion.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I literally can't hear you. I can't hear you.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

The rest of us are wearing the translation devices that actually—

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I never wear them. My ears are too sensitive.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order, order.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's keep our cool here. We're here for another hour.

Mr. Mulcair, do you want to continue, and the clerk will go over and ask them to reduce the noise?

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I would prefer you protect the time. It wasn't 9:53 that was protected by the House of Commons; it was four hours of discussion and debate on this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

No, it was four hours following the adoption of the second reading motion, so—

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chairman, you have an obligation to protect decorum and the ability of members of Parliament duly elected to do the jobs they were paid to do. Would you please take care of the music first, and we'll continue as soon as you've done that?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. I will suspend the meeting, and we'll ask the clerk to go and see if we can deal with the noise.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I call the meeting back to order.

We were discussing whether clauses 2 to 44 should carry.

Mr. Mulcair, please continue.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would just like to have a ruling from you now that would confirm for us that the four hours set aside by the House of Commons will be respected, in the sense that it was clearly the intent that we would have four hours of debate on our bill. We've just lost, from my count, 30 minutes of that time. I would just like your ruling on that, and I will not belabour the point. I just want your ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for raising that, Mr. Mulcair. I'll just read the motion:

...not more than four hours following the adoption of a second reading motion, any proceedings before the Committee to which the bill stands referred shall be interrupted....

The adoption of the second reading motion was at 5:43 p.m. Thus at 9:43 p.m., as the chair I have to follow this order, and in turn every question necessary for the disposal of the committee stage of the bill shall be put forthwith.

That's my ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Mulcair.

We will go to Mr. Wallace, please.

Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I'm not obliged to talk now.

[An hon. member]

Let's vote.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Are you ready to vote?

I'm getting pressure from my colleagues, Mr. Chair, not to talk for another half an hour.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

We were saying no more dancing.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I do have information from the Retail Council of Canada in support of the HST; the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, which we heard about tonight; the Ontario Chamber of Commerce; the always conservative Fraser Institute; the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters; C.D. Howe Institute; and the Tax Executives Institute. I don't have Jack Mintz's report with me, but I can go and get it if people want it. I have information from the editorial board of the Financial Post, the editorial board of the The Globe and Mail, the editorial board of the Toronto Star, and the Certified General Accountants Association of Canada, to say a few.

But I understand that people would like to move along and get voting on this, so I would like to call the question. It's my turn, so let's go to the vote on clauses 2 to 44.