Finance Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2009

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I'm not a Liberal, I'm an NDP Member. I'm asking you if the members here, regardless of their political affiliation, should vote against this budget?

[Pierre Céré]

All I can say is that we do not intend to give up the fight. Our sole objective is the restoration of an employment insurance scheme that protects workers, and we are prepared...

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Céré.

My next question is for Mr. Georgetti.

Mr. Georgetti, I want to use some of my time to give you an opportunity to answer the question raised earlier by Mr. “Lightning“ McCallum. He asked you if the Liberals should vote for or against the budget. I will spare you the preamble to my question to Mr. Céré. Should we vote against the budget as tabled, yes or no?

[Ken Georgetti]

I think this budget should be voted down. I think it should be voted down for three key reasons. One, it only achieves one percent stimulus. I was in Washington, D.C., on the G-20. Our government agreed to spend two percent; they're only spending one percent.

The victims of this crisis are being ignored, Mr. Mulcair. The women and the unemployed are being ignored in favour of fancy tax cuts and other things that do nothing in the short term to offset the damage to the victims, unemployed Canadians, who through no fault of their own--and I might add through their tax dollars being used to backstop banks and bail out everything under the sun--can't get their unemployment insurance. For that reason alone I'd vote the budget down.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you for that clear answer, Mr. Georgetti. It's greatly appreciated.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Mulcair, you have two minutes if you wish.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I have a question at this time for Ms. Byers concerning the rights of women to equal pay for work of equal value. As far as we are concerned, this is the most important part of the budget, because it represents a purely ideological assault on a Charter right.

Based on her assessment, perhaps Ms. Byers can tell us if the unions and other persons are inevitably turning to the courts to challenge these provisions, and in so doing, depriving the government of the only argument that it is trying to make, namely that this approach will ensure that things move ahead more quickly than they did under the old system.

[Barb Byers]

In terms of what this Public Sector Equitable Compensation Act is even doing in this budget act, if it wasn't so desperately awful for women, we would say “What's the problem?” because first of all, they've frozen public sector wages for three years. There is no negotiation. But in terms of the Public Sector Equitable Compensation Act, this is not about equitable compensation, it is not about women getting a fair deal as federal public servants, and it is not about women having some access to being able to challenge. This is not a proactive law. This will be complaint-based. This will not compel employers to do anything as a proactive measure, and they won't be doing anything, because if they were going to do something they would have done it by now, if they really believed in wage fairness for women workers.

We don't think you should take away people's rights to use the human rights commission or any other rights to be able to challenge this. I mean, look around this room and tell me where the women are and tell me what kinds of wages.... And we're talking about the prevailing market forces having an indication. Well, that's what part of the problem is here.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

You raised the question of the prevailing market forces, quite correctly, in your analysis before this committee. But did you also not notice that the government is raising the bar up to 70% presence of women? That would mean that the existing rule, the general rule right now of 55%, allowed you to go after groups of a concentration of women, but at 70% it's not going to apply to anybody.

[Barb Byers]

No, it's not really going to apply to anyone, but those to whom it will apply won't get anywhere in terms of advancement at any rate. It's a huge attack on women's economic equality, and I'll tell you that we feel the discrimination every time we take a pay cheque home, every time.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you for that clear answer, Madam Byers.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Mulcair.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

You are advocating tax-exempt transit benefits. According to a report released several weeks ago, this deduction has not proven beneficial in the least.

Would you care to comment?

[Bernard D'Amours]

There may be some confusion, Mr. Pacetti. We support making employee transit passes tax deductible. We have always supported this measure. As it so happens, Mr. Obama increased the deduction from $120 to $230 per month in his...

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Has the initiative announced in the budget two years ago had a positive impact?

[Bernard D'Amours]

According to our surveys, it is extremely hard to say if this measure has contributed to an increase in ridership levels. As I mentioned, ridership has increased by 3% per year and was up about 15% overall between 2002 and 2007. However, no one has been able to establish a clear cause-effect relation between increased ridership levels and the deduction that all Canadians can claim, which represents about 15% of the annual cost of a transit pass.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I see.

How much has been earmarked for public transit in the budget?

[Bernard D'Amours]

A total of $4 billion has been announced for transit infrastructures, but we are looking for long-term public transit funding.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

There is nothing in the budget for this?

[Bernard D'Amours]

There is a single reference in the budget to the fact that public transit qualifies, but no mention is made of the amount committed.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What level of funding are you seeking?

[Bernard D'Amours]

We haven't quoted a figure, but to give you an idea, in last year's budget, somewhere between $400 million and $500 million were committed through the transit trust program.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

And have the $400 million to $500 million committed last year been spent? Have agreements been reached to determine which projects will...

[Bernard D'Amours]

Yes. Agreements have been signed with the provinces and funds have been committed.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I believe these funds have been committed, but they have not yet been spent.