Finance Committee on May 4th, 2010

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Yes, sorry, they're from NRCan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

What is the rationale for putting these provisions concerning the sale of AECL in the budget bill, Bill C-9? Why not debate this separately in the House of Commons? We have, for example, what was Bill C-20, now Bill C-15, on nuclear liability. That's being debated separately, running separately through. Why not AECL?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Chair, this is a question for question period, not for the officials. The officials are here to provide background information on the decision that is in Bill C-9.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

So there's no reason from the department about that?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Thank you, Mr. Menzies.

If there's anybody who—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

There's no solid rationale?

Pardon me, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

If any of the witnesses would like to answer, you're more than welcome to answer the question. If not, you are not obligated to, because it is probably a political question. But if anybody does have the answer, it may help Mr. Regan by giving him some background.

I'll leave that open to the witnesses.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Any volunteers?

[Cécile Cléroux, Assistant Deputy Minister, AECL Restructuring, Department of Natural Resources]

We can provide the answer that the decision of government was made public in December 2009 to proceed with the divestiture of part of AECL, and that decision includes being able to provide certainty to investors and remove the long-term uncertainty to employees. That's why we're proceeding so swiftly.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Okay. It doesn't really tell me why it's in Bill C-9, but I'll move on.

I see Mr. Menzies is anxious for that.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Mr. Regan, I just want to remind you that you have five minutes, and it's with questions and answers.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much.

So what kind of power does this give cabinet? I mean, would it allow cabinet to sell 100% of AECL to the South Koreans? Would it allow cabinet to sell 100% of AECL to the French, for example?

[Cécile Cléroux]

The bill provides for flexibilities to be able to consider the proposal, which will be binding, coming from investors in the coming months. These proposals, which will be examined by cabinet, include taking into account all of the interests of Canada: the question of energy security, the question of safety, the question of all of the provisions of investment, making sure that we have the best deal for Canadians.

All of that is provided in the bill to provide the flexibilities, but cabinet will have to examine all of that based on the objectives that were made public back in May 2009, and reiterated in December 2009.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I wasn't asking about the history of the development of this. I'm simply asking if my impression is correct that this allows cabinet to sell 100% to the South Koreans or the French.

[Cécile Cléroux]

The possibility of selling 100% is part of the provisions in the bill. The question of who would be the potential beneficiary of the sale is part of the cabinet decision to be taken in due time, based on the information that will be provided at the time.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Sounds like a yes, Mr. Chairman.

All right. So are there any guarantees of review under Investment Canada? Let's say in the event that it was sold to Canadian companies or a Canadian consortium, what, if any, mechanisms would there be to ensure that it wouldn't be then broken up and sold to some foreign company?

[Cécile Cléroux]

It is premature to determine the outcome of the process that is under way. This is part of the cabinet decision to be made when we'll be examining the binding offers that will be forthcoming.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Of course, the difficulty is that we're being asked to pass a provision in a budget bill--which is not really where this belongs--and then to leave it up to cabinet without any more discussion about how this all is going to work. So when they make these decisions, we're not going to have the opportunity in the House of Commons to have much of a debate, it sounds like, or any.

If it's a 100% sale, what protection in the legislation is there for the 30,000 jobs at AECL in Canada; for the intellectual property, which basically belongs to Canadians; and for the investment the Canadian taxpayers have put in over very many years?

[Cécile Cléroux]

The main assets of AECL are definitely the resources--the human resources, which are part of the...the part that is being considered to be sold, as well as the intellectual property, which has been developed over the last 50 years. So this is part of the elements that will be taken into account when cabinet will be examining the proposals that will be forthcoming.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Is there any protection in this legislation--being considered by this committee--for those elements, for those assets, for those 30,000 jobs in Canada?

[Jenifer Aitken, Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Natural Resources]

I'm from legal services, so I can say that there's nothing in the language in the bill that speaks to those issues.

But I'll let Ms. Cléroux speak to it more broadly.

[Cécile Cléroux]

The decisions that will be made will be based on the objectives that have been made public, and definitely the jobs and the question of the intellectual property are part of the elements that investors are currently asked to take into account when they make the proposals that will be forthcoming.

So the decisions of cabinet will be based on the proposals that will be presented, and we'll have to make sure that they answer the three objectives that have been made public.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

So if the personnel are one of the--

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Thank you. You can come back to it.

We're doing rounds of five minutes.

We'll have Monsieur Paillé, and then Mr. McCallum.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Good afternoon.

This is a comprehensive privatization process. Have an analysis and contract been assigned to a broker?