Finance Committee on May 11th, 2010

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

And darkness.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

They were the forces of darkness, yes. Evil for Mr. Mulcair, darkness for me.

I want to understand the implications of what you see as the point of this proposal. Is this an attempt to reverse the court decision?

[Jamie Kneen]

It would appear to be precisely an attempt to reverse the court decision. It takes the elements the court ruled on and reverses them in law, because they're not there now. The Supreme Court was very clear as to the intentions of Parliament in passing the law in the first place.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Mr. Carrier, please, you have five minutes.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Yes, thank you.

Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm also quite disappointed to see that we are studying the entire environmental issue in only one part of a budget implementation bill. I'm not a litigant like my neighbour, I'm not a lawyer, but I feel that preventing all possible discussion on the importance we have increasingly been attaching to the environment for a number of years now is an abuse of democracy. We are being denied the right to discuss this.

There is a Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development, on which some of our colleagues sit on a permanent basis. They have thus become specialists on all these issues. Our finance committee is examining a budget implementation bill. That doesn't prevent us from having opinions about the environment, as you heard today. You are representatives of the corporation who have come to tell us how disappointed you are that all discussion on a decision contained in a bill is being terminated, especially since the government is also making this a matter of confidence. So some opposition parties feel they have an obligation to give the government their confidence. That prevents all discussion. It's really too bad for you, who are people concerned about the environment. In politics, MPs are supposed to be representatives of the people. We are here to represent the population. Some groups involved in environmental protection, some of the best groups, come and tell us they weren't consulted. We virtually can't introduce amendments. We can't assess the entire importance of certain measures in a part that only affects a bill's implementation. That's really too bad. I have the same opinion as you, but I can't say more.

However, I'm going to ask Mr. Lemelin a question about Canada Post Corporation. There are some technical details I would like to clarify.

Coming back to an important problem for a Crown corporation, the activities of a Crown corporation are evaluated in the context of the review of a budget bill. However, I would like to have some clarification of certain figures. We're talking about $60 million to $80 million in losses as a result of the remailers. I want to know from Mr. Lemelin, who is quite familiar with this file, whether these are actual losses as a result of businesses that are breaking the law or estimated losses as a result of the bill's implementation?

[Denis Lemelin]

In actual fact, the $60 million to $80 million represents Canada Post's losses. This is a decline in revenue of $60 million to $80 million for Canada Post. That money goes directly into the hands of the remailers. This is revenue that should enable Canada Post to maintain the universal service. That's what this amount represents. Businesses like Key Mail and Spring are acting outside the law in doing this work. They are taking this revenue away from the Crown corporation.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Has Canada Post Corporation already begun to record losses?

[Denis Lemelin]

Yes, absolutely.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

After the bill is adopted, other remailing contracts will no doubt be awarded to those businesses. Will there be additional losses? Is remailing already being done in a manner—

[Denis Lemelin]

Remailing is already being done. These businesses are acting outside the law. They will be officially recognized after the bill is passed. They will expand across the entire sector. This sector consists mainly of five or six large businesses. They don't necessarily represent thousands of employees, but rather a few hundred workers who mostly earn minimum wage. They work for those businesses.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

In your view, if this isn't currently allowed by law, how do you explain why it's already being done?

[Denis Lemelin]

The legality issue was raised with the Conservative Party. The court decision is currently set aside until December 2010. Perhaps that's why these companies are actively working to change the law.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Perfect. Thank you, Mr. Carrier.

Mr. Wallace, for five minutes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests for coming today.

I'll start with the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. I understand that we'll be seeing the actual management side of Canada Post either tomorrow or another day to ask the same questions.

Following up on Mr. Carrier's questions, the remailers have been in business for a number of years now. Is that correct?

[Denis Lemelin]

Yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

On the money you're talking about, the $60 million to $80 million of potential revenue loss isn't potential revenue loss. It's what they're making now or what you estimate they're making and have been making for a while. Is that correct?

[Denis Lemelin]

Yes, that's the last estimate they had for Canada Post.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Okay. Can you tell me if the union has been decreased in terms of its size? Has the number of people in your union decreased?

[Denis Lemelin]

No. We have 54,000 members. We represent people in urban areas and we now represent people in rural areas. We have 54,000 members

It's clear that the mail volume went down during the years. I said that in my presentation. There was a loss in 2008-2009. But the people working at Canada Post have job security.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Is the mail volume actually up now, or is it still down?

[Denis Lemelin]

No, the mail volume is down. One of the big impacts on the mail volume has been the fact of the financial and economic crisis.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

What have the growth of UPS and all the courier companies done to Canada Post's business?

[Denis Lemelin]

It's not about exclusive privilege. The exclusive privilege is the letter.

The big corporations came in within the last 20 years. They're competing on the parcel industry, overnight delivery, and that type of work. They are competing directly with Canada Post. They're in the commercial sector, and Canada Post has the right to compete with them.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Yes, I know. I send stuff through Canada Post. They compete.

Is there something stopping Canada Post from directly competing with the remailers?