Evidence of meeting #19 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB
I don't know about you, but I'd like to stay on the good side of that Irishman.
4:45 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB
I don't think it would be wise for those institutions to do that.
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
Mr. Menzies, I would have to agree with you.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB
Is this super card with the 3% interest rate out there and being offered to your members?
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
In fact, we have started receiving.... We heard rumours that MasterCard was going to introduce a super premium card. We thought it was a joke. However, we have received e-mails from some of our merchants, specifically in Quebec and British Columbia, for whatever reason, telling us that they had been approached by their acquirers confirming that this card would be in the market this year
We were told that it would be by the end of the year, but now our merchants are telling us that they're seeing it on their transactions, on their statements.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB
Okay. That's very troubling. I guess our biggest concern here is that consumers don't know what the cost of this is to the merchants. I'm not sure how we get that message out there, because they get offered all the perks and think it's wonderful, but the merchants can't bear that cost without passing it on.
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
I think you make a very good point. As you know, there's no question that all of us enjoy accumulating our points and using our points. But I think we need to understand that if I go in with a card that is that expensive because I'm accumulating points, David and Terrance, who are not using that card, are in fact paying for the privilege of my using that card. So it puts upward pressure on prices for everyone.
That is of great concern to merchants because, as you know, they have very thin margins. And it's of concern to us at a time when the currency is very strong, because cross-border shopping it makes even more difficult for merchants to be competitive in Canada.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to thank the witnesses for being with us today.
Ms. Brisebois,
I've been on the committee for a while, and I know you're regular presenter, so I don't think you have to apologize to anybody.
The fact that you are bilingual is not a problem. This is a bilingual country.
I have a quick question. I think this is a world record in the sense that the legislation hasn't even been tabled and it's already obsolete, so what is it that you need?
Do you need this to be in legislation? It's a regulation. What else do you need?
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
Thank you for that comment.
I think what I would say was fairly clear in our speaking notes. The minister has introduced a code of conduct and, as Mr. Menzies said, it's voluntary until it becomes involuntary.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
Well, there is anecdotal evidence.
I think we're also here to applaud the fact that there are regulations that will allow the minister to in fact regulate the payment system. What we're saying is that this may have to happen sooner versus later.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
So you should start working on your bilingual presentation today for your next presentation.
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada
We work on our presentations every day, sir.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you.
Just quickly, on the remailing issue, I'm an accountant by trade and I have a couple of clients who were in printing and used to do the remailing. But it's not clear what has happened. Since the court case, it's my understanding that it's been a couple of years—four or five years, and probably more now—where you cannot remail. So we do actually have the numbers available as to what is being remailed from Canada Post.
I understand the part where there are still people loading up trucks and bringing them across the border and we're losing all of that business. Now, with electronics, we're actually sending the files electronically and getting them printed elsewhere. I understand that part, but we do have a number for what is being remailed via Canada Post, do we not? I'm not sure whom to address the question to.
Mr. Elliott, I know that you want to answer the question.
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Printing Industries Association
I'm not sure if it was going to be the last question you asked, though. I guess I just want to clarify that it hasn't just been in the last five or six years that we've been in business as remailers--
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Printing Industries Association
No. We've been in the business, because there was a stay on that decision put in there, and the decision of the government at the time or...I think the lawsuit was against one company, not against all of them. But we've been in the business for well over 20 years. I guess that's our issue: what are we taking away--
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Printing Industries Association
No. Except for that one company, which obeyed the law.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Okay.
Now, what are the savings? I've spoken to one of the smaller universities in the Montreal area. Their projection on how much money they're saving on the remailing part is from $300,000 to $400,000, because they mail internationally and they save money on all these mailings that they have to do.
I can't imagine what the bigger universities are saving, but where exactly are the savings? Is it in the printing or is it in the fact that Canada Post charges too much for the cost...?
4:50 p.m.
General Manager, Classic Impressions Inc., Canadian Printing Industries Association
It's not the printing costs. The postage is the big part of the mailing. We have the envelopes, the paper, the printing, and the processing, but the postage is by far the biggest part. It's over double.... But Canada Post does compete. They pick the jobs that they want to do and they can still compete in that business.
They're competing with other post offices in other countries and stuff like that, and they do it themselves. Right now, Canada Post has reps to go down to the United States to solicit companies there to do the mailing in Canada for them. So it has to be a two-way door....
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Mr. Yussuff, I understand that you're trying to protect your members in your particular organization, but isn't there a trade-off here? Aren't we just changing four quarters for a dollar? It's the sense that maybe Canada Post will have fewer employees, but is it because private industry will have more employees? Is that the problem?
It seems to me there's a wash here, where maybe Canada Post will have fewer employees and private industry will have more, or maybe everybody will just be able to maintain more business here in Canada. I'm not necessarily seeing an advantage or a disadvantage.
